Timekeep69
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« on: August 07, 2007, 07:45 PM » |
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Some of you already know I'm trying to open up a drum shop in Phoenix. Does anyone have any experience running one? Start up costs? Monthly income? etc.
ANY help would be appreciated.
PJ
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Timekeep69
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« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2007, 10:37 AM » |
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hehe...don't everyone answer at once .
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Chip71
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« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2007, 11:05 AM » |
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You first will need a company (SHOP) name. Then you need to contact the internal revenue and set up a tax number. An accountant could do all of that for you. A place of residence for the shop will also be needed. Then contact each drum company or business you think you will be dealing with and get information and set up accounts for their products. Have them send prices for you and information to hand out flyers to customers. Again, they will need a company name. Once all that is done, run an advertisement to allert customers that you are in business. Once all that is done comes the hard part.......Sell yourself to the people. You must be able to talk. If you're not a good talker then find someone who is. You need to have a name in place or the drum manufactures won't consider you as being a shop! Scout out all of the competitors in the area. That way you can get an insite as to what they handle and prices. You can't have a business without knowing who your running against and their prices. That's very important! 
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"When you quit learning you start dieing"-My Grandfather
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eardrum
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« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2007, 01:08 PM » |
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If your serious about starting a drum shop you should be talking a class in starting a small business, reading up on the local, state, federal laws (not just tax stuff), doing some serious number crunching, etc... Everyone underestimates the cost of starting and the cost of SUCCEEDING. You will not be making any money for a while. Think of it as a long term investment and a very risky one at that. You better have enough reserve cash to keep you off the street for the next 2 years and that's in addition to the capital you need to setup the shop, procure inventory, hire employees. Don't forget insurance costs - plan on somebody triping over the double bass setup and suing you. The three rules of setting up a shop 1)LOCATION, 2)LOCATION, 3)LOCATION!!!!! Any more advice and I'd have to charge my normal fee
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Chip71
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« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2007, 01:24 PM » |
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Eardrum is right. Take some small business classes. I was in the construction business and took small business during the winter. I was so glad I took those classes. It opened up my eyes to many pitfalls in business. Taking the time to investigate the matter and preparing yourself is half the battle. 
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"When you quit learning you start dieing"-My Grandfather
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2007, 01:39 PM » |
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Patrick (aka Timekeep69), you already know about my drumshop from the early-90's; spoke to Gaddabout on the phone at length.
I didn't have any business classes, didn't have any money, didn't borrow any money. I had my shop for 2.5 years, closing it when I decided to take a full-time road gig. When I closed the shop, I had $30k in inventory.
All that to say it can be done with little start-up costs. I just got some photos from my mom from my first shop location ... and it's hilarious. I barely had anything to sell in the shop! But I grew slow and steady, sowing the profit back into the shop ... living off my gigs.
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
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eardrum
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« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2007, 03:11 PM » |
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Bart, I agree that it can be done and done without a million bucks but for every success story there's a whole bunch of failures. Also, I wouldn't consider a 2.5 year history a success for small business unless you sold the store for a big profit ($30K inventory will buy a Saturn Vue if its free and clear) and you are potentially putting a lot at risk including personal liability. Granted, a drum shop doesn't carry the liability of a consulting engineering or pharmaceutical firm but a small old building in a small old gold rush town that has been in the family for years is leased to a little restaurant and a lady tripped on the step and sued everyone - liability is real, at least in the US. It all depends on your goals and what kind of risk you want to take on. If you can live off of gigging and can afford the setup of a shop thats great. It will help tremendously if you have a repuation in the community already (I bet you did  ) I've seen a gaggle of small businesses fail because folks just don't prepare properly so I'm jaded. But, I've been running my own business since 94 so I know it can work also.
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Louis
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« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2007, 03:28 PM » |
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Statistics from the Small Business Administration (SBA) show that two-thirds of new establishments survive at lease two years and 44 percent survive at least four years. This is a lot better than the previous long-held belief that 50 percent of businesses fail in the first year and 95 percent fail within five years. You can check with the SBA for more info.
The most common reasons businesses fail are:
1. You start your business for the wrong reasons. Would the sole reason you would be starting your own business be that you would want to make a lot of money? Do you think that if you had your own business that you'd have more time with your family? Or maybe you wouldn't have to answer to anyone else? If so, you'd better think again.
2. Poor Management Many a report on business failures cites poor management as the number one reason for failure. New business owners frequently lack relevant business and management expertise in areas such as finance, purchasing, selling, production, and hiring and managing employees.
3. Insufficient Capital A common fatal mistake for many failed businesses is having insufficient operating funds. Business owners underestimate how much money is needed and they are forced to close before they even have had a fair chance to succeed. They also may have an unrealistic expectation of incoming revenues from sales.
4. Location, Location, Location
5. Lack of Planning Anyone who has ever been in charge of a successful major event knows that were it not for their careful, methodical, strategic planning -- and hard work -- success would not have followed. The same could be said of most business successes.
I operated my aviation business for over 20 years. My advice would be to contact the SBA and get the free startup info kit and that should give you more things to take into consideration.
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No one will believe it's the "Blues" if you wear a suit, 'less you happen to be an old person, and you slept in it last night!
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2007, 03:36 PM » |
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Bart, I agree that it can be done and done without a million bucks but for every success story there's a whole bunch of failures. Also, I wouldn't consider a 2.5 year history a success for small business unless you sold the store for a big profit ($30K inventory will buy a Saturn Vue if its free and clear) and you are potentially putting a lot at risk including personal liability.
Well ... my point is that it CAN be done. I consider myself very successful and I only closed the doors because I wanted out of Amarillo. The business was growing and my final location was next to Service Merchandise. There's a lot of "doom and gloom" being shared, and I simply wanted to show that it CAN work. You have to be smart with your money and make wise decisions. I agree, I think you are a little jaded.  But I do agree with how things can turn out. I just wanted to share what I consider to be a huge success story ... and success is not measured in $$$  although money is certainly needed to survive and grow in your business.
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
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Louis
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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2007, 03:39 PM » |
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Well ... my point is that it CAN be done. Yes it can! I started with a little less than half a shoe string and made it by working hard and lots of planning.
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No one will believe it's the "Blues" if you wear a suit, 'less you happen to be an old person, and you slept in it last night!
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Timekeep69
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« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2007, 04:25 PM » |
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I'm meeting with SCORE on Monday. Thanks for the responses. I'm hoping that my store will be more than a retail store. I'm hoping that it will be a place for drummers to hang out and talk drums with staff and other customers. I plan on doing used gear and local band CD consignment as well. I also hope to carry stuff (brands) that GC and Sam Ash don't normally stock. I also plan on giving lessons as well.
The space I'm looking at is 3600 sq ft as the former renter was a guitar/P.A. store. I've talked to the previous renter and he closed because he got out of retail and went into guitar repair.
I guess the main question I have is what the startup costs for inventory would be. I'm obviously going to want to stock up on consumables.
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eardrum
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« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2007, 05:18 PM » |
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I guess the main question I have is what the startup costs for inventory would be. I'm obviously going to want to stock up on consumables.
It's whatever you can afford it to be. No way to answer your question without knowing your business plan. Also, I'm not sure that your use of the term "consumables" is correct - are you stocking up on detergent, candy bars, etc or equipment and CDs. Hope you like shopping cause that's your job now (at least a big part). I've known small business owners that spend most of their time bargain hunting, wheeling and dealing, attending every local auction, constantly online, etc... As Louis pointed out, there are a lot of free resources to educated. You should probably get connected with your local chamber of commerce also although membership isn't free. Regarding SCORE - it can be a great help but it all depends on the coach you get assigned. They are not all great and the folks I spent time with 15 years ago didn't understand my business AT ALL and couldn't offer any help. It's not their fault, they simply had no experience in my business which admittedly is not the local mom and pop shop model. So, like anything, it's buyer beware and don't have the expectation that they will give you perfect advice or tell you everything you need to know - hopefully you'll get better results than I did. Good luck and I wish you all the success.
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Louis
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« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2007, 05:57 PM » |
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Startup cost will depend on your business plan and what bands you want to sell. Most maufacturers have a minimum first order and many specify what must be included in that first order. There are also protected territories to consider. Just because you have a store front and want to carry XYZ cowbells doesn't mean you can automatically order one XYZ "really good" cowbell at dealer cost. Oh yeah, there are also several levels of "dealer" cost. There are several distributors who handle the smaller stuff and you can make good deals with them, especially when you are in a position to buy in bulk.
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No one will believe it's the "Blues" if you wear a suit, 'less you happen to be an old person, and you slept in it last night!
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Timekeep69
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« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2007, 06:15 PM » |
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I'm not sure that your use of the term "consumables" is correct - are you stocking up on detergent, candy bars, etc or equipment and CDs. Drummer consumables: Sticks, heads, cymbal felts, etc. With some of the drummers I've known you could also add cymbals to this list but I'll leave it off for now.
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Eric C.
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« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2007, 06:55 PM » |
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A drum shop in Phoenix....wanna give me a job? 
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Like and angel from the underworld, or a devil from paradice...
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Timekeep69
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« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2007, 07:04 PM » |
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Im not hiring at this point but the better I get to know you, the better your chances. 
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drumwild
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« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2007, 08:18 PM » |
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I didn't have any business classes, didn't have any money, didn't borrow any money. So how do you know what licenses to get? Delaware corporation, Arizona corporation, or LLC? What if you or your accountant forgets to check a box or carry the 1? What about employees, insurance, workers comp, etc? Was the real estate rental Full Service Gross or Triple Net? How do you know what you need? What are the penalties if you miss something?
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2007, 08:29 PM » |
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So how do you know what licenses to get? Delaware corporation, Arizona corporation, or LLC? What if you or your accountant forgets to check a box or carry the 1? What about employees, insurance, workers comp, etc? Was the real estate rental Full Service Gross or Triple Net?
How do you know what you need? What are the penalties if you miss something?
 You are intentionally making it harder than it is or needs to be. I'm not going to debate this with you. The answers are simple; ask questions! You don't have to have a degree to own or start a business. There's a little thing called sole proprietorship. As you grow you can move into something else. If you need to protect yourself, do LLC or S-Corp. You don't have to have an accountant. You don't have to have employees. I have experience owning and running a drum shop ... and I'm sharing my experiences ... take it or leave it.
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
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Timekeep69
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« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2007, 10:01 PM » |
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OK as of right now it's going to be a sole proprietorship. I may LLC later if necessary. I don't plan on having empolyees right away. Yes, I understand there will be long hours. I already pretty much live and breath drums. I play drums in two bands, build for Medicine Man Custom Drums and teach lessons. I plan on splitting my office space (it's huge) and making a play room for my son so my wife can come help. I've been running Medicine Man Custom Drums AZ for about 5 years so I know how to run a business. I've never done a brick and mortar retail store. I want to start small but not too small. I want to have enough to make people want to come in. It's hard to come up with a business plan when I don't know how much the start up inventory is going to cost. 20k? 50k? 100k? 500k?
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2007, 10:40 PM » |
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I want to have enough to make people want to come in. It's hard to come up with a business plan when I don't know how much the start up inventory is going to cost. 20k? 50k? 100k? 500k?
Understood ... but you also don't want to have so much inventory on the floor that you can't move it. I would suggest trying to find a happy medium. With my store, I grew to the point of being a Sonor dealer (HSS). I had a Net-90 with my first order and I had to order three kits upfront. How did I make that work? I worked hard to find several buyers in advance so that I could turnover the kits quickly. I sold two, had one on the show room floor that was then already paid for. The profit then went towards more kits. It was a slow process, but a lot less stress ... for me at least. My suggestion is find out who will let you be a dealer. Some companies aren't going to let you carry their line because of loyalty or regional agreements. Get that settled first. Find out what kind of potential deals they'll work out with you. You'll have a better idea on what kind of money you'll need for inventory. Since I took the poor boy path, my start started with used gear and consignments. I put my money on "bread & butter" items like drumsticks and drumheads, things that I knew would turnover quickly and would always be needed. You just don't sell a drumkit everyday, well in the town I was in. You're in a much bigger area so the demand will be greater as well. I understand the concern ... wanting to have a cool place and something for people to look at ... I dealt with similar feelings. But for me, it seemed more prudent to have slow steady growth, growing with my business, instead of going into debt just to have the best showroom in the city. I'm amazed at how much money is wasted on fixtures and such. It can be cool and hip without buying brand new EVERYTHING! Maybe you can start talking around to find out what other drummers are into and want. Not that it's a guaranteed sale, but you'll have a better chance stocking things that people actually want and will purchase quickly ... rather than having the cool, eclectic items no one can afford. There are programs that you can purchase that have sample business plan templates that will help you come up with your business plan. I bought Business Plan Pro a few years ago to begin looking into making the Drummer Cafe an actual venue. Check out Palo Alto Business Plan Pro 2007.
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
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