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Author Topic: Playing an old chart in a new way  (Read 624 times)
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paul
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« on: August 17, 2007, 07:43 PM »

My big band leader has discovered Artie Shaw, with a little encouragement from me, and has acquired a couple of classic Shaw charts, including <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/i0xM8YRMmyA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/i0xM8YRMmyA</a>, and plans to start working them next time we rehearse.

At this point, he's really in love with the way Rich plays and sounds on this tune, and that presents a challenge for me.  Obviously, what was recorded with the equipment of the time isn't necessarily the sound that a live audience heard.  And I'm not enamored with the idea of trying to set up 1939 style cymbals, especially hats, just for one song.

Also, I'd like to see how the song sounds played with a more modern approach if I can.  So I'm thinking about it now, and how I might play the various sections, and decided that this would be a good forum from which to get suggestions.

So what do you think?  How would you play that chart?  Would you play it just like Buddy did 68 years ago?  Or would you play it like you might an arrangement by Gordon Goodwin?  Something in between?  Brushes for part of it?

Of course I reserve the right to ignore all suggestions, no matter how reasonable, but am interested in your thoughts.

Thanks in advance.
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2007, 08:15 PM »


Of course I reserve the right to ignore all suggestions, no matter how reasonable

That could have gone unsaid.
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paul
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« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2007, 08:49 PM »

Point taken.  Sorry.  I meant no offense.
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2007, 08:57 PM »

I'd simply play it like you'd play any big band arrangement: like Paul, not Buddy.

This song has enough conspicuous rhythmic figures that it should be easy to set up, whether you approach it like Buddy, Sonny Payne, or Mel Lewis. But I'd lose the heavy 4-on-the-floor bass drum, simply provide a nice simple rhythmic bed that swings, and catch the kicks of the tune.

I love this tune - it's one of my favorite Benny Goodman tunes, and I enjoyed hearing Artie Shaw's arrangement. But it's a strong song, capable of being played in a variety of styles. Take advantage of that, and play it like YOU.
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Eric C.
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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2007, 11:30 PM »

When ever I try to copy some one directly I always feel uninspired. I think as drummers we have the greatest advantage because we can play other peoples songs in our own way without drastically changing the song. To me, if I don't find some way to make the chart some what original, I'll feel very board with it. But this might because one of my biggest fears is being the same as everyone else. I even have dreams ware I'm in assembly line with a bar code on my neck getting the same clothes and hair cut as the person in front and behind me.
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paul
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2007, 09:03 PM »

I'd hoped for more responses here, but that's ok.  Maybe it's all been said above.

I tend to think that no matter what I play it's going to sound like me.  After 43 years of playing drumset, I have a voice that isn't affected much by my attempts to copy someone else, and I wouldn't try to copy a 1939 Buddy Rich anyway.

It's also occurred to me that my perceptions are skewed by the fact that I'm listening to the original as it was recorded with 1939 technology.  A recording of that same performance with modern technology might sound very different.

So I'll experiment.  I'll try different options when we play the chart, and see what sounds good with the rest of the band.  For various reasons, I'm not going to get to do so much for the next few weeks, but we'll see what happens.
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diddle
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2007, 08:54 AM »

But I'd lose the heavy 4-on-the-floor bass drum, simply provide a nice simple rhythmic bed that swings, and catch the kicks of the tune.

yes, that 4_on_Floor is too much for that song... my approach would be heavy HH on 2 & 4 with ride ostinato... and bass only for accents... and maybe a small fill on floor toms ala Krupa style...
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Chip71
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2007, 10:45 AM »

I played that song many times while in the Army. Our commander was a huge fan of Artie Shaw. As a result we played alot of his music" Lady Be Good" was one of his favorites. He made sure we used a wooden snare and new calf heads. We had a large drum section, but he insisted only one would do the snare parts, and another guy would do the cymbal parts. Needless to say, none of us were Buddy Rich. Good music, you'll learn alot playing old charts. Be yourself, but TRY you're best to play as it WAS written. Those guys invented the music. So it's up to you to interprit what they did.     That's just the way music is, makes you humble.   Shocked   Cool
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2007, 07:15 PM »

I'd hoped for more responses here, but that's ok. 

I'm no big band drummer, nor do I have more than a cursory knowledge of the tune in question.
I thought Mr A's answer was spot on however.


Quote
It's also occurred to me that my perceptions are skewed by the fact that I'm listening to the original as it was recorded with 1939 technology.  A recording of that same performance with modern technology might sound very different.

Yes, I've had difficulty deciding what to play on 1960's pop style material.
They primarily miced the drums with a couple of overheads, or a single mic and the spill of the drums went into other mics for the orchestra or vocalist. Hence, the snare and cymbals are the most audible drum sounds on those old recordings.
If you play a similar part with a modern, focused bass drum, it can sound terrible wrong. The alternative is to play no bass drum at all, which also seems wrong.
In the end, I try to play a modern-ish part with a very light bass drum touch.
Sorry for the tangent.........
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diddle
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2007, 08:46 PM »

... a very light bass drum touch.

for a more "traditional" jazz approach ... I consider Buddy one of the best but his approach was sometimes too heavy for my taste...
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rca
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« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2007, 10:13 PM »

I think the floor on the floor had a lot to do with the fact that it was dance music and performed without sound reinforcement. The one thing sure to carry throughout a large hall is the kick. Remember the bass was acoustic! The most striking aspect of period swing is the strong quarter note pulse. (pun intended  Grin) Sound reinforcement frees us artisticly but at the same time puts the engineer in control of the mix.
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