Hey,


So lately I've been trying to get my drumming to that level where it's really studio friendly - where a sound tech could just set up a couple of over heads, hit record, and get a nicely balanced drum sound. However I'm having trouble with the volume of my toms. With my condition, my muscle weakness makes it hard for me to play the toms I have (Pearl masters MRX 9 deep by 12 and 16x16) at a volume that brings out their body and has a nice punchy attack that cuts through. I can play them hard enough at real slow paces, but during a roll the sound turns to mush.

I've also currently got Evans EC2 heads on the batter and G1's reso cause I wanted a sound that was really deep, kinda tribal. I've managed to get what I was aiming for in that regard.

But basically, I was thinking, would toms with thinner shells (say Mapex Saturns) and maybe single ply drum heads for batter, like G1, get me want I'm after?

Oh and I'm also thinking of getting a 12 or 10 deep by 14 floor tom if I do end up deciding to buy different drums, the 16 is just a bit difficult ergonomically. And I also feel I need more bounce from the toms... Any significant differences between 12 and 10 inches in a 14" tom?


Phew!
Cheers

I've got drums that are both thick shell and thin shells. Each has their own sound, and it's up to "me" to control what comes out of them. In general, it comes to what kind of music I'll be doing in the studio. But for studio work, I'll usually take my old Slingerlands. They have thick shells and warmth. So I can beat them a little harder and not overcome the music in a small studio setting. If I'm told I need to be louder, I'll drag in my thinner drums (DW) or hit them harder. It depends on the music and what the band is looking for. Either way, most of the time I'll use my Craviotto snare. It's just an awesome snare sound that records great. It's nice having the pick of 4 sets. I can choose the sound that will fit their music best. As far as thick vs thin shells. Not a big deal to me, I have to control the sound no matter which set I use. It doesn't matter if I use my Mapex, Slingerland, or DW set. It's a matter of getting the sound you want for the band you're with. That takes a good ear and control of the tuning for the situation. Bart would be better than me for studio input. I've only recorded a few times. It was the man turning the knobs that made my drum sound come off with value.   

Again, I would say go with the Visalites.  They are very loud drums.  You need to try some. Where most people mic in a med. size club, there is no reason to do that with Ludwig Vistalites.  They will run you out of the room. I would make a few calls and see if you can find some to beat on a little.
                       Nutty

For me, a thin shell takes less effort to fully excite.  A shallower depth has less decay time.  Heavier shells take more effort to fully excite and can be louder but also can be mellower or smoother sounding than a thin shell given the same about of force.  Bob Gatzen says heavier shells have a "blunt" sound to them.



What's professor sound say?

Construction Guidelines, All Drums
 

To pick the right head to achieve desired sound, you should consider the inherent character of your drum, which is often very much determined by its construction.

 

All of what I consider as important aspects of construction are covered in greater detail as you read through the bible. Here we start by giving some simple rules to better understand the construction aspects:

 

1.         The rougher the interior, the less resonant the drum.  Just like putting carpet on a wall, rough interiors break-up and absorb reflections.

 

2.         Thinner shells are more resonant. Because there is less mass, they are easier to excite, they resonate more than thick and heavy shells.

 

3.         The sharper the bearing edge, the more overtone and high pitched overtone resonance.

 

4.         If the drum is void of obstructions inside, that is, no reinforcing hoop adhered to the inside; the drum will be more open and vibrate more freely. Conversely, if the drum has reinforcing hoops inside, it will have a shorter decay/sustain and a more mid-ranged presence or attack than unobstructed shells. The reinforcing or counter-hoop stifles the ability for the drum to resonate, thus decreasing the low-end along with the very high-end response to a small degree. Therefore, the unobstructed shell is usually brighter or with more high frequencies, while the thin unobstructed shell increases low-end resonance as well.

 

5.         A "better" sound is what you want the drum to sound like and despite the marketing propaganda; less expensive does not mean an inferior sound. Low cost drums are usually a "punchy" type sound due to wood grades used. If recording, this may be exactly what you want in a drum.

 

6.         Wood Sound Explained: First, these are general guidelines, which are greatly enhanced by the thickness of the wood used.  So if you apply the rules given above, and some common sense, the following will hold true or aid in choosing a drum.

 

Maple compared to African Mahogany: Mahogany will have an approximate 20% increase in low frequency resonance over the Maple drum, mid and high frequencies will be the same from a reproduction point of view.
Maple compared to Birch: Birch will have about a 10% loss in reproduction of low end compared to Maple and about a 20% increase in the high end, with the mid range remaining about the same. So the Birch kit will definitely be a "harder" and "brighter" sounding kit.
Beech is in between Maple and Birch. All other Maple colored woods used in laminated shells are basically there for either structural integrity or looks and do not have the desired qualities (meaning density and grain structure) of the above.
Mahogany has earned an undeserved bad reputation due to the use of inferior grades such as Luann on low cost drums for appearance reasons. But Mahogany is a very rich sounding and warm tone.
Oak is a very bright cutting sound and stick attack and presence are very pronounced.


Shell Depth versus Diameter
 

The shell depth while having a small impact on the warmth or resonance of the drum has a greater impact on volume and articulation.  The diameter has a far greater impact on creating lower pitch.  Greater depth increases volume or power by having an impact on resonance of the fundamental note of the shell. A shallower shell creates a shorter burst of tone and makes a drum more articulate by virtue of the fact that the quantity of surface area of the parent material (i.e. the shell) is lessened and therefore cannot resonate as much as large surface area. Less distance between heads means the opposite head (i.e. Resonant head) reacts quicker, or gets excited faster when striking the batter head, it responds better to softer playing.  For instance, a 22" diameter kick drum of 16" in depth has a shell area of approximately 6,080 square inches.  A 22" diameter kick drum of 18" in depth has a shell area of approximately 6,840 square inches, or a 12.5% increase in area to resonate.  Take that same thought to a 10" tom with a 9" depth. This results in a shell area of approximately 706 square inches versus one with an 11" depth, which results in a shell area of 863 sq. in. That 2" increase in depth is now a 22% gain. The deeper the shell, the more likely they are to produce a deeper or warmer sound because of resonance ability, but this should not be confused with a low tuning.

 

As for diameter, you have to think about your approach to tuning and overall sound desired.  This further explained in the section Interval, Sequences and Concepts 




Vistalites can be very loud, but require a heavier approach.  Their tone is different and so is their feel.  They have a very hard feel in my opinion.

Bob Gatzen, using a Sonor shell as an example said thicker shells give a blunt sound in the (upper ranges) compared to thinner shells which generally have more clarity in that register. He also stated that the Sonor shell although not mentioning the company as an example had a very round, fat sound to the drum. Almost every recorded Sonor sound ive heard has been my favorite recorded sound.

Well the drum just doesn't SOUND right. The attack is buried in the body unless I lay into it, you can't polish a turd with a microphone unfortunately. My hands are really weak. I think I'm just going to have to try a whole lot of kits.

Thin shells will be louder and speak more easily than thicker shells, given the same amount of force. The problem is you aren't playing shells in a vacuum. What I mean is, by the time you add in size, number of plies, bearing edges, hardware, finish, mounting system, heads, etc. the shell thickness my have very little affect on the overall tone.

Here's what I would do if I were in your situation:
-Use single ply heads. They take less force to get the drum to speak.
-Experiment with tuning. Try to get it the loosest you can, while still maintaining a good sound.
-Make sure your mounting system isn't choking the drum.
-Make sure your bearing edges are all in good condition.
-Use smaller sized drums.

I have tried it. I have the old roland td-8.

Have to say I wasn't pleased with it. You can only really get away with using the bass drums on it. Which is all I use it for these days. I did try triggering my acoustic toms but still didn't get what I desired from them sonically.

I've never had band members approve of the sound either lol.