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Author Topic: I hear a "feedback" coming from my ride  (Read 964 times)
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dannydrumperc
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« on: September 12, 2007, 10:06 AM »

The cymbal used to sound perfect. I've been only hearing this since a few weeks ago. It is a really weird feedback-like noise; my wife hears it to. It comes out when the volume of the sound reaches certain peaks. Have tried Moongel, tape, different rooms and stands, felt vs. rubber washers...

I'm starting to think that it could be related to some sinusitis we had been suffering, since I'm feeling some pain/presure around my ears (the left one specially). My wife says she hears it only with her left ear. Could be our ears more sensible to certain frequencies due to sinusitis/hearing conditions?
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2007, 10:24 AM »

Have you tried different weight sticks, different tips?

I have one particular ride that washes up to an annoying ring if I use a heavier stick on it.  Lighter sticks - no problem.
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2007, 10:30 AM »

Could be our ears more sensible to certain frequencies due to sinusitis/hearing conditions?

Short answer?  Yes - at the very least, it can affect how you hear what you hear.  A number of years ago, I spent about an hour trying to chase down a subtle buzzing sound I was starting to hear from my steel pans.  At one point, I realized that I was always hearing it in my right ear, even when I walked around to the other side of the steel pan and tapped the instrument.  I went to my doctor, and sure enough, I was in the early stages of an inner ear infection. 

There are a number of possible causes:

1)  What you're hearing is a result of the sinusitis.  Have you heard this phenomenon with any other cymbals?

2)  Perhaps the "feedback-like noise" has always been there, and you just happen to have noticed it now.

3)  The sound of your cymbal may have changed.

I know I'm just about the only person here on the Cafe who believes that #3 is possible, but I have no doubt that it can happen, especially if your cymbal is relatively new.

There's another possibility:

4)  Has anything changed in your playing or equipment choices, between the times before and after the sound in question started to present?  New sticks, perhaps?  Has your striking spot on the cymbal changed?

One other possible solution:  try a larger (diameter) felt on the cymbal stand.  That wouldn't explain why the sound appeared after all of this time, but it might help to tame it a bit now that it's here.

Overall, tho, I'd wait until the sinusitis has run its course, before you wear yourself out trying to chase this ghost out of your cymbal.  If it is indeed a problem with your hearing, it doesn't matter what you do to the cymbal.
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dannydrumperc
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2007, 10:37 AM »

Have you tried different weight sticks, different tips?

I have one particular ride that washes up to an annoying ring if I use a heavier stick on it.  Lighter sticks - no problem.
Yep, and works all the opposite. It comes out clearer when using my VF's SD2, but it's harder to hear when playing it with nylon 5B. I think it has to do with the SD2 emphasizing on the lower frequencies, making the ring easier to be perceived. That’s also why I compare this ring to a feedback. It’s like it like it won’t show until the harmonics build-up.
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dannydrumperc
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2007, 10:47 AM »

Short answer? 
Man, you know your answers never are short  Grin

Answering to your points:
1 - Yes... but not as loud or sustained.
2 - Maybe...
3 - Bought it new on 2002, so it should have had settled by now.
4 - No new gear, different sticks or anything. Have tried changing the placement of the cymbal and the playing spot, but no difference so far.

Have no doubt it should be a combination of both the cymbal and my hearing.
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Chip71
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2007, 01:24 PM »

I had that happen to me several years ago. It turned out to be a very small crack that didn't show up until a few weeks later. It drove me nuts! I looked and looked and changed things. Then one day I spotted the crack.   Shocked
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dannydrumperc
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2007, 01:35 PM »

I had that happen to me several years ago. It turned out to be a very small crack that didn't show up until a few weeks later. It drove me nuts! I looked and looked and changed things. Then one day I spotted the crack.   Shocked
Thanks, Chip. That was my first guess, but I haven't seen any crack yet. Where was the crack at your cymbal?
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Chip71
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2007, 03:03 PM »

Where was the crack at your cymbal?
About 2''or 3" in from the edge. It was a 20" ride I had for a while. No idea how long the crack had been there.
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dannydrumperc
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« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2007, 03:48 PM »

About 2''or 3" in from the edge. It was a 20" ride I had for a while. No idea how long the crack had been there.
My experience with cracked cymbal is that they tend to buzz, not ring; that's why I'm not so sure about it being cracked. Anyway, I'll keep my eyes and ears open  Wink
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« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2007, 06:04 PM »

Probably just an overtone you haven't noticed until now, and since you have it will pop out quicker to your ear. Could be a sympathetic vibration I suppose from another instrument/object in the room, but that seems unlikely.
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« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2007, 06:45 PM »

My ride is pretty ringy, but recently I borrowed a pair of drumsticks from a friend, and my ride sounded crisper and cleaner than ever. 
They were Dave Weckl Sig. sticks (by Vic Firth, I think), and they sounded great on cymbals.

Maybe sticks aren't the issue here, but if they are, there's my two cents.
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« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2007, 09:07 PM »

... It is a really weird feedback-like noise; my wife hears it to. It comes out when the volume of the sound reaches certain peaks.

What you are describing sounds like audio feedback to me.  You said it occurs at certain peaks.  Is it possible that you have one or more mic gains too high? 

Feedback is a condition where the sound "chases" itself... which is normally caused by excessive gain somewhere in the audio loop.  This type of condition will sound like a low frequency roar in the background.  Try lowering your gain controls.
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« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2007, 08:13 AM »

What you are describing sounds like audio feedback to me...
Sorry if I was not clear, but I'm not using any amplification - it's just the cymbal by itself. It  is something within the cymbal, certainly; although I do feel my ears a bit congested.

The guys at cymbalholic.com are suggesting me to send it to a custom crafter/artisan to see if it has repair. Maybe it is time for a new cymbal...
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jameswalker
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« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2007, 11:00 AM »

The guys at cymbalholic.com are suggesting me to send it to a custom crafter/artisan to see if it has repair. Maybe it is time for a new cymbal...

If you do opt to send it off for reworking, I can recommend Mike Skiba's services without hesitation.

What is the cymbal, if you don't mind my asking?
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dannydrumperc
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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2007, 11:23 AM »

If you do opt to send it off for reworking, I can recommend Mike Skiba's services without hesitation.

What is the cymbal, if you don't mind my asking?
The one on my avatar: the 20" K Horacio Hernandez signed for me.

I love it's sound, except for this annoying ring it got lately. It doesn't rings that much when played near the edge and it is unperceivable when playing the bell, but if I crash it or ride it closer to the bell then it comes out.
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jameswalker
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« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2007, 11:42 AM »

The one on my avatar: the 20" K Horacio Hernandez signed for me.

Oh, well, there's the problem - the signature screwed up the cymbal!  What kind of ink did he use?

(Just kidding, obviously.)   Wink

If it does indeed turn out that the problem is the cymbal itself, and not your sinusitis, and if you can't solve the issue with some judicious use of a little gaffer's tape, some reworking might just be the thing.  I know that Mike has adjusted many existing cymbals in the past, and this sounds like exactly the sort of thing that he (or another accomplished cymbalsmith) could address with some careful and subtle hammering.

It sounds to me like the cymbal just needs a little bit of one-on-one TLC from a cymbalsmith, the kind of thing that isn't always possible when cymbals are mass-produced in the amounts that Zildjian (or any large cymbal company) puts out.

(Please, don't anybody get their knickers twisted over that last comment - I've got a number of "big three" cymbals that I love.  It's just that sometimes, a cymbal needs a bit more personal attention, and that's not always possible when you've got thousands of pies heading out the door.)
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dannydrumperc
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« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2007, 11:12 AM »

Yesterday I did a percussion session and the engineered asked me to reinforce the ride cymbal a of a programed drum track. Luckily, I had the mentioned cymbal with me, and saw this as an opportunity to give the cymbal a try outside my practice room.

Amazingly, it worked great! I still could hear the high tone, but now it was integrated with the other harmonics of the cymbal. It sounded just perfect. The engineer loved it too.

The problem seems to be my accoustics at home. I live now at a concrete house with low ceillings (aprox. 8'). The place where I lived before had a very high ceillings. So what I've been  hearing is the change in the accoustics, not in the cymbals - thanks the Lord!

Thanks to all of you have showed interest on the thread!
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« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2007, 10:40 PM »

here is a wild idea. is it possible  that what bothers your ear is a standing sound wave? can't explain it but at times i have been playing  the stereo and a particular frequency will bother  my ear.
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