New York Frank
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« on: November 01, 2007, 10:28 AM » |
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I hope this thread hasn't been done before. [searched, didn't find] I'd like to get some dialog going on how people have successfully used Audacity. Audacity, if you don't know, is an amazing, free - yes, free - multitrack recording app for Windows PCs. I need to record some clips this weekend - rapidly. I will not be overpondering tone. Especially since I am probably going to have to do this with a single Radio Shack mic. But, I need to get some clips together of me playing - even if the sound quality is poor - since this recently got in the way of getting an audition. Have you succeeded in recording a track while listening to the playback of a track? I know that's the whole Point, but when I tried it last year, I got some latency, and the time of the two tracks was not In Sync. It freaked me out until I realized it was the App.  I later found one or more settings I needed to change, but now I can't remember what they were. Anybody?
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Louis
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« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2007, 10:34 AM » |
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I have Audacity but do not use it to record. If no one answers I can check into it when I get home and should have an answer for you by Friday night. I also know two people who mess around with it and will call them to see if they have an answer off the top of their head. They should be home around 5 or so tonight.
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No one will believe it's the "Blues" if you wear a suit, 'less you happen to be an old person, and you slept in it last night!
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New York Frank
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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2007, 10:38 AM » |
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Louis - thank you much. All - can anyone recommend a cheap, 1/8" jack mic from a Best Buy or Radio Shack that won't completely rot for this exercise? 
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2007, 10:48 AM » |
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Since I have Pro Tools the only time I use Audacity is then making RingTones ... so I don't think I'll be much help or have much to add or suggest.
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
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Louis
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« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2007, 10:52 AM » |
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Frank,
First import or record the first track. Next open the "Audio I/O" section of the Audacity preferences, and check the box labeled Play other tracks while recording new one. Close the preferences and press the Record button. That should do it for you. My friend was between flights and gave me this info. If you have more problems let me know.
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No one will believe it's the "Blues" if you wear a suit, 'less you happen to be an old person, and you slept in it last night!
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New York Frank
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« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2007, 10:54 AM » |
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Thanks so much. There may be one other setting I need to find, but I'll see.
I have a vague recollection of quickly finding the setting you mentioned, and getting the multitracking working properly, but then needing to find another setting to reduce/eliminate recording the second track out of sync with the first.
Thanks again.
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Louis
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« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2007, 10:57 AM » |
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He said that setting would correct most latency problems. There can be problems with some computers that can not be corrected. If you do not check the box you can still record multiple tracks but they will not sync automatically.
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No one will believe it's the "Blues" if you wear a suit, 'less you happen to be an old person, and you slept in it last night!
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Joe
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« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2007, 11:27 AM » |
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You do have some closed-ear headphones (or at least some earbuds) to listen to playback with, right?
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I'm not a particularly slow player, yet I don't play fast. I play half-fast.
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New York Frank
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« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2007, 04:06 PM » |
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You do have some closed-ear headphones (or at least some earbuds) to listen to playback with, right?
Yes.
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eardrum
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« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2007, 11:34 PM » |
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Frank, Audacity is great!! I used to use it to record directly to my laptop. Now I use my IPOD, then use Audacity to edit and convert to MP3. My needs are real basic and I don't use 90% of Audacity's features so I'm no expert, but....
I don't know if this will help but a while back while setting up "PrintMusic" on my laptop to transcribe drum parts from my Roland VDrum I learned that recording through the external usb midi device while listening to the click directly from my Vdrum created a delay. The problem was solved by by using the midi device for both input and output. I don't know enough about your setup to say this is a similar problem but I can tell you that if you don't have a good sound card or if your using different input and output, you can create the latency problem. Good luck..
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sleepybrIghteyez
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« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2007, 06:54 AM » |
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If you're still having latency problems it may be due to your sound card/interface, or lack thereof. The more tracks you build up the more you will notice the latency, and how much your computer can actually handle. When recording, you'll want that latency as low as possible. When you mix, you can actually bump the latency up to take some of the load off of your PC, freeing resources to run more tracks and/or FX smoothly.
I didn't realize Audacity was free. I'll have to check it out again. There is another free multi-track program called Reaper.
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New York Frank
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« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2007, 08:25 AM » |
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Most of what I'll be doing with it will be just two tracks: - Reference track of some sort - Me I have used it for song edits and song transposes for years. This is the first time I'll use beyond one track in a while. Can't wait for the weekend to get to this. Hopefully what I hear on playback won't freak me out. 
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New York Frank
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« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2007, 10:40 AM » |
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Well, I either have to put all my sticks into a wood chipper, or go buy a recorder I can't afford, because I can't spend another minute trying to do it on the computer.
My playing is way behind the beat, and either I'm that terrible - a possibility - or this computer is torturing me.
A terrible morning.
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sleepybrIghteyez
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« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2007, 05:37 PM » |
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Ah man, that is no fun! My guess is that if that setting Louis suggested didn't solve the latency problem, you need to buy a decent sound card or USB/Firewire interface. There are relatively cheap stereo and mono interfaces. You will want one with mic inputs, not just line inputs. Check this one out by Presonus... http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/PreSonus-INSPIRE-1394-FireWire-Audio-Interface?sku=241483Here's a review from Tape Op. http://www.presonus.com/tapeopreview-inspire1394.htmlAnd the main product page at Presonus http://www.presonus.com/inspire1394.htmlThat will give you the ability to record four tracks at once! It also has phantom power in case you eventually pick up a condenser microphone. You can daisy chain up to four of them together if you need more inputs. It doesn't have MIDI I/O though, which I think is a draw back for any audio interface, but if you don't need that then it's not a problem. I've used the Presonus Firebox for about two years now and it has been rock solid.
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New York Frank
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« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2007, 04:37 PM » |
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Even after recording just solo, so that I don't have latency to blame, I'm hearing very bad things in my playing that I just didn't hear before. It has been a dark weekend, to say the least.
Anyway, while 80% of what I'm hearing wrong is My Playing, 20% is the horrific audio I'm getting. Right now I'm using - don't laugh - a computer mic - and it's giving me exactly what I paid for it.
I can't afford a whole set of good drum mics. Can anyone recommend a single, inexpensive omnidirectional mic that Might be able to capture the drums not too badly?
I'm not looking for ultimate tone. I can't afford it. I'm just looking to be able to put my barf pail away.
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Nuclear
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« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2007, 07:33 PM » |
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Hey Frank,
I use Audacity to record myself singing and playing guitar, and I just use a SM57 to capture it. The quality isn't great of course, but the 57s are cheap and will record your drums a lot better than the computer mic.
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New York Frank
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« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2007, 07:53 PM » |
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But an SM57 is unidirectional, yes, meaning I need a bunch.
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sleepybrIghteyez
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2007, 10:14 PM » |
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You don't need an omni mic for your OH (though they are nice in that role). You can use a mic with a cardioid (unidirectional) pattern. With omni mics, you are getting a mix of what you are pointed at and the room, whereas a cardioid pattern will block out a lot of what it isn't focussed on. Many times people use a stereo pair of cardioid mics for OHs. Personally, I've enjoyed using a single omni OH (plus a mic on kick, snare, and maybe a room mic). If you were to get two matching cardioid pattern mics you could set up via the Glyn Johns method- using two mics (plus maybe a kick mic) to get a pretty good image of the whole kit. If you get a single mic for OH, you may want to get an extra mic to put on the kick. However, instead of using a single mic as an OH, you could use it as a room mic a few feet in front of the kit about level with the top of the kick, and you will get a fairly decent image of the whole kit. My band mate and I use a mic in that way when we record our practices. It's nothing spectacular but it gets the job done well.
I would suggest getting a condenser mic if it is the only mic you will have. A large diaphragm condenser works great as a room mic, and if it can handle high SPL levels, as an overhead. However, you will need phantom power to run a condenser mic of any type. My LDC is the MXL 2001. Works great as a room mic. My SDCs are two MXL 604s, with swappable cardioid and omni caps. I use one of those as a mono omni OH on my kit, and sometimes I'll use one on my snare with the cardioid cap. MXL mics aren't anywhere close to a Neumann, but they are good enough on a budget. You will also need a preamp for your mic(s), and a proper interface for your PC. You may be able to get by with a dynamic mic and an adapter going straight into your PC mic input, but I don't know if you'll be able to boost the gain enough. I also wouldn't guarantee there won't be a noise issue when hooking a mic up to a PC in this way.
There are a couple mics that hook straight to USB. I'm not sure how one of those would fair as a room mic, but it may be a more affordable option than buying a regular mic, plus a new interface for your PC.
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felix
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« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2007, 04:42 PM » |
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The radio shack pressure zone mics aren't completely horrible sounding. These are high impedance. I also have a Behringer 8 channel mixing board that needs to go. I can cut you a great deal on these three pieces which should get you up and going. When you get a few extra bucks you can use the PZM's for overheads and substitute a good kick and snare mic. This board will have room for two tom mics after that (4xlr inputs and 3 or 4 stereo line input channels- I have to look). The PZMs can be rewired to be low impedance also if you get ambitious, but for now they should be an improvement over what you have. It's small too.
I have two pairs of the PZMS that I never use as well as this board. I can sell them to you if you wish. Your latency problems can be tricky, but if you monitor everything "live" before it goes into the computer using a mixing board you will be ok. And if you go eventually with a larger hardware interface on your computer with multiple inputs, this board has inserts/direct outs, so you will can use its mic pres and or as a headphone amp or in conjunction with another headphone amp.
You need a little board to start with man. Most people just cough up the dough for a fancy hardware interface these days, but you might be able to make this setup work. And if it doesn't, you have a board for a PA worse comes to worse.
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Scott
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« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2007, 09:30 AM » |
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Felix is right. It definitely makes it a WHOLE lot easier to run a mixing board for purposes of "live monitoring". We are drummers, and what we are recording is all going in to the PC via microphone--as opposed to a direct line-in instrument such as a guitar or keyboard (or even e-drums). So, we really need the ability to do "live monitoring". In that case, the mixing board gives you that ability, and like Felix mentioned, it also gives you some headphone power, too (maybe not a TON, but it's still a whole lot more than what you can get from your PC alone). Now, I would also like to add that as far as a "fancy interface" (a/k/a analog to digital converter) goes, well, I personally would recommend investing in a nice one, but my recording goals are different from yours. But I can tell you from experience that the converter is just as important or more important than the mics in the recording process. In other words, a great quality mic makes a huge difference over a low quality mic and the same holds true with converters. So put a really nice converter with a set of really nice mics (and adding in some good quality mic pre's makes it even better) and you're going to get a GREAT sound with lots of clarity. But your mixing board at least gives you that "built in" mic pre for each channel. What else is important here? The SOUND CARD.... Anyway, I think you have enough to get started and at least accomplish what you are wanting to at least accomplish initially. I just thought I'd add some additional food for thought for when you want to improve the quality of your recordings further down the road (which you WILL  ). Good luck and keep us updated on your progress.
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