bolweevil
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« on: November 15, 2007, 05:39 PM » |
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Hey folks, I think I'm pretty good at grasping and pulling off most cover songs, but lately I've been required to backup some originals, and I'm having a hard time with it. I haven't played originals heavily for a long time, and recently I've grown accustomed to blues, funk and jazz (in that order of frequency). These styles--at least the first two--seem to be pretty clear in hinting at what needs to be played, and I've gotten so used to the "standards" style that now I'm in a funk when it comes to "making stuff up". The originals are an acoustic, singer-songwriter style, with just a hint of funk. Many of the songs don't even seem to need drums (blasphemy, I know  ), but he wants drum parts, and of course that's my job. His feedback generally consists of, "It sounds like drums to me," so that hasn't helped too much. I seem stuck between playing the simplest of beats and over-thinking it into pretensious-artsy-no groove-land. It's like I have to turn my brain off, but not toooo much.  Any advice?
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Chip71
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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2007, 07:10 PM » |
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Just pick up his rythem and play along until something fits. Watch for any breaks or changes and do what comes natural to you. After all, it's original music so there's no wrong. Unless it sounds like garbage it must fit.  Good luck, and have fun. Keep it simple, that's the key. 
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2007, 07:55 PM » |
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I'm hopeless at writing interesting drum parts. I usually rely on the songwriter to guide me, but in some cases (like yours) they are no help. I would stick with the simple ideas and don't sweat it. I think innovative drumming is highly overrated. And some of the greatest drumming has come out of instinct and gut feeling.
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drumnut1
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2007, 08:22 PM » |
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And some of the greatest drumming has come out of instinct and gut feeling.
My drumming may not be the greatest but this is the only way I play. Just try to give it what it needs. I wish I could write music score but that is beyond the spectrum of what I have worked on. Nutty
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"You are only as good as the people you surround yourself with'. "I love The Cafe. "If there is music today, it is a great day". "Tama Star Classics and Paiste cymbals for ever" !!!
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Ryno
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2007, 10:52 PM » |
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Any drummer or musician friends (besides the songwriter) that you can bounce ideas around with? Sometimes a different perspective can make a world of difference. Any similar artists that you can check out for ideas? Here's some singer/songwriters with acoustic-driven music that come to mind immediately... Wilco, Brett Dennen, Ray LaMontagne, Damien Rice, Guggenheim Grotto, Ryan Adams, Blue Merle, some Ben Harper, Jack Johnson, to name just a few.
As per previous replies, my opinion would be to start off with the simplest patterns that come to mind, especially considering the genre. If you and the songwriter feel the song needs no more, then leave as is. If your gut (to quote C.W.) tells you to spice it up a bit, then try it out in small increments.
Also, the singer/songwriter stuff can also sound great with percussion added sparingly. Maybe a tambourine hit on 2 and 4 in the verse, then move to the snare for 2 and 4 in the chorus. Maybe try adding some shakers into the grooves as well. The LP mini maracas are relatively easy to hold in your hand while simultaneously holding a stick or brush. You could tape some egg shakers to your favorite sticks for a different sound.
Another idea is to check out the recent series of articles that Glenn Kotche has written in MD about homemade percussion solutions. These articles are fantastic!
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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
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jameswalker
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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2007, 11:50 PM » |
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His feedback generally consists of, "It sounds like drums to me," There are a couple of ways that phrase could be interpreted, including: "I need drumming, and you're drumming, so you're doing fine." ...or... "That sounds like what every other drummer in the world plays, and I want something different - something unique - not just 'sounding like drums.' " If it's the former, and he's happy with what you're playing, then you're golden - don't overthink it, don't try to do something unique just for the sake of uniqueness. If it's the latter, however, try and think of different sounds you could use to express what you'd normally play on snare, hi-hat, ride cymbal, etc. - what I believe Ryno is talking about. A backbeat doesn't have to be played on the snare drum head or with a cross-stick - play the backbeat on a rack tom, or a tambourine, or the bass drum, or by clicking the sticks together. Eighth notes don't have to be played on a closed hi-hat - they could be brushes on the snare drum, floor tom, a shaker...the possibilities are there, you just have to look for them. If you need some quick inspiration in this area, I highly recommend Billy Ward's "Big Time" DVD, or if you can find a copy, Airto's "Listen And Play" instructional video (although I'm not sure if that one's out on DVD - it might just be VHS).
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Ryno
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2007, 11:58 PM » |
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If it's the latter, however, try and think of different sounds you could use to express what you'd normally play on snare, hi-hat, ride cymbal, etc. - what I believe Ryno is talking about.
Bingo James! That's exactly what I was thinking. If you need some quick inspiration in this area, I highly recommend Billy Ward's "Big Time" DVD Absolutely. Brilliant recommendation.
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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
- Theodor Seuss Geisel
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David Crigger
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2007, 03:34 AM » |
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I seem stuck between playing the simplest of beats and over-thinking it into pretensious-artsy-no groove-land.
I think that line describes what everyone feels when confronted by the "blank slate" of a new song. And if your song-writer doesn't have strong feelings about the drum parts, fine. Then this will be a good opportunity to hone your own sensibilities. It is sort of like reverse engineering the thought process that you use when deciding that you really like the way a drummer plays on one recording and may don't so much like the way another drummer plays on some other record. Use the same judgements here - take the original songs here and compare them to similar songs that you know from other recordings. Now play similar to the way the drummer plays on those recordings (assuming you'll lean more towards the records you like than the ones you don't). As for the driving need for truely original parts for original songs - I'm with Chris here. In that. I think that need is often way overstated. Again go back to your CD collection - on how many tunes do the drums play new, quirky things? Compared to the number where the drums play pretty normal patterns and fills, arranged to nicely fit the song like a glove. I'll bet is like 1 to 50, if not 1 to 100-200. The lion's share of the drumsets musical function is to provide the time/feel - the time part would be the communicating the pulse and the feel part would be helping to define the style/groove/genre of the music. How did you put it? Singer/songwriter type stuff with a hint of funk? Or maybe slightly funky, pop-rock? or folk rock with a hint of soul? If any of these are good descriptions - take them back to the CD collection in your mind, find other records that fit the decription and use what those drummers did as a starting point for what you should do to these songs. Anyway, that's bascially what I do when confronted with new music. I kind of grew up as a player feeling that the whole point of learning how to play standards and covers, etc. was to be able to learn to do exactly what your doing... making up new parts to new music. Have fun! David
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bolweevil
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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2007, 10:31 AM » |
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Thanks for the advice everybody! I've come up with at least a partial solution: the songwriter had given me a rough version of his new song, just vox and guitar, and I recorded myself playing along with it, using different ideas each time (or variations of the same idea). It was a bit tricky because he doesn't record to a click (especially when it's a rough cut), and I had to chase his beat around a little bit. Point being: I often have a problem reconciling what drum parts sound good in my head, and what ends up sounding good within the context of the song. Listening back to various parts has helped me there. If I don't have the urge to bob and sway when I listen to it, it's not right yet. So it turned out pretty simple, by the way, but with just enough spice so it's more than kick-snare-kick-snare. Hopefully the songwriter will like it. Despite all the time I put in, he'll probably nod and say, "Sounds like drums to me!" 
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felix
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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2007, 01:46 PM » |
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It's kinda nice if you can listen to "scratch" tracks of ideas after the tune has been pretty much recorded. Then if I'm really motivated I might chart or add to the chart what fills ( or lack there of ) I thought really rocked! It's amazing the power of a well played flam  Unfortunately I can't just play gazillions of takes with my set up- it's pretty much "digital analog" (that's the way I like it- sometimes  ) but with the right computer rig one could easily cut and paste a masterpiece. Really good thread. I especially like the advice from our senior members about not trying to make every drumming performance something new and innovative or whatever. It has to groove 1st and sound cool. As one of my guitar players used to tell me; "play something that doesn't suck." Hmmmm ok?
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Dave Heim
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« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2007, 03:26 PM » |
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I try to build off the bass player. Follow that groove. Then find a backbeat that compliments the rest of the song. It doesn't have to be on 2 & 4, try moving it around to only 2 or only 4, or the and of 2, etc. until you explore a bunch of options. That being said - sometimes (more often than not, actually) 2 & 4 is the way to go.
Unless we're channelling The Who, I try to keep the fills to a minimum. Fills need to support the tune - not cause a distraction.
Some tunes don't need much at all - just a bit of support. Case in point: The band I joined up with in August - Luna Blu - is in the middle of re-recording originals (so that I'm on them). Some of the old tracks are still up on myspace.com/lunabluband. One of the tunes there - Change Your Mind - is, to me, a good example of a song that needs very little - or perhaps nothing at all. I think it works fine just the way it is, but it's still up for debate.
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-chris
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2007, 08:31 AM » |
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Play with in your means; keep it simple, stupid. (K.I.S.S.) Don't try that new fill you've been working on (at least not on your first take). 9 times out of 10 it will not work. Anytime I start to think about a fill at the end or with in a verse or a chorus, I start to fade away from the click. The problem is "think", your drum part should flow naturally from you and it should complement the music. Keep your ears open and the only thing you should think about is the form of the song. my 2 cents -c
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Riddim
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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2007, 10:18 PM » |
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Dont worry on being interesting; just give the music what it needs – no more, and no less. It may end up being Phil Rudd simple, or like something Mike Giles might have done. The point is not to worry about being slick or arty – just be musical. If you concern yourself with being musical, the instrument will play itself.
You can always ask the others in the band what they think; singers and bassists are usually pretty quick to let one know when things are not well.
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Gaddabout
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« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2007, 02:03 AM » |
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I envy drummers who know how to make every gig look like the best gig in the world. The reality is I think every drummer has played several, maybe many, gigs where the music just doesn't inspire them or they just can't find what they think would make everything work. A lot of times it's just the artist, the way they sing, they way they phrase their voice or their instrument, that seems counter-intuitive to what I'm asked to do. You play earnestly play through it anyway until no one can imagine the drums being played any other way.
You fight through it, but you make sure you *sell* it on the gigs with your energy and your body language. It's the Steve Ferrone rule. He plays on some the straightest rock gigs in the world, but you go to a show he's playing and he will sell you on the music. I never thought much of Tom Petty until I saw his live show with Ferrone. Great energy and, obviously, Petty's an incredible lyricist, but wow what a show. Do you think Ferrone goes home after a tour thinking he's broken new drumming ground with Petty? No way. But he's satisfied that he's done his job as a professional drummer and earned his paychecks.
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2007, 03:55 PM » |
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On the World Party gig the drum patterns are largely set by the song writer and main instrumentalist Karl. He usually plays the drums on the albums and his rhythmic palette is quite limited. as a result I find myself playing the same three grooves, at varying tempos, throughout the show. What you realise is the drums are very much a foundation of his songs. They perform a function of time keeping and basic framework. The listening audience are more taken with the melody and lyrics. In an ideal world you can have interesting drum parts and good melody and lyrics, as in The New Bohemians for example, but that's not how Karl works.
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0007
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« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2007, 09:42 AM » |
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What I find helpful is to get out from behind the kit, learn the songs as a fan first, maybe sing along to them...THEN some interesting drum patterns emerge because points of emphasis soon stick out to you.
Also, "keeping it easy" on yourself is good practice. Of course, increasing your repertoire so that many different things become Second-nature is the key. As a kid, taking lessons through the Drummer's Cookbook was invaluable for me in that respect. The concept of GROOVE came to life. I still flip through those pages for exercise, even though I don't play much funk these days.
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