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Overgrown_housecat
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« on: August 08, 2007, 04:08 PM » |
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Hey guys! I just found this site and I have a question, but first off, I'm not a drummer, I'm asking this question on behalf of the drummer in my band. (He has dial-up  ) Anyway, he has had his kit for about a year now and we're starting to get into recording. The belt thing underneath the snare drum fuzzes and rattles in "sympathy" to the toms when they're being hit. How can we stop this? I've read on the internet about damping, but that seems to only apply to the top drum skin. Thanks in advance, ~~House Cat~~
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Nathan
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« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2007, 04:16 PM » |
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Oh the lament of the snare buzz. It's not a bad thing, not at all. The snare's are always going to react to vibrations around them, due to the nature of the drum. There are certain things to can do to lessen the amount that they vibrate. Firstly: Make sure the drum is in tune with itself, and that it sits comfortably with the toms. If one of the rack toms is tuned to a similar pitch as the snare, the snare wires are going to get all excited every time your drummer hits that tom. We could talk for hours about how to tune your drums, but I would suggest reading The Drum Tuning Bible http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/ for starters. As a last resort, you can dampen the wires. I've found that threading a ribbon through the wires can have a nice effect. You can try detuning one of the lugs on the snare. You can remove the offending tom. You can put a piece of moongel on the bottom head. All of these are ways that will affect the sound of the snare. Except removing the tom, that will only hurt it's feelings. Remember, you don't want to completely dampen the snares. They are part of the sound of a drum kit, and you'll miss them if they aren't there. Nate
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Yer off the edge of the map now, mate. Here there be monkeys on crack!
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eardrum
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« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2007, 12:39 AM » |
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This is a very common problem just about impossible to eliminate completely. Sometimes it's not the tom that excites the snare, it's the bass or some other instrument hitting a certain note. During quiet parts of songs that don't require the snare I sometimes have to turn the snare off. And your drummer really needs to learn how to tune drums. It's his responsibility, unless you are going to have him tune your guitar/piano/theromin... Nathan gave some good suggestions for minimizing - I've normally been able to fix by tuning/detuning.
Unless your music requires very quiet and sensitive drumming the normal snare buzz shouldn't come through. But this will also depend on your recording setup, e.g., you have one mic recording the whole kit vs multiple mics. When positioning cymbal and tom mics, try to keep them pointed away from the snare (you'll want to do this with or without snare buzz).
Good luck and welcome to the cafe.
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boro123
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2007, 11:12 AM » |
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The dumper doesnt help in this ocasion. I have pearl sensiton snare,and iam dealing with that problem easily:adjust it properly,there must be some kind of clutch,or simple clamp or so,to the level of not hearing the annoying snaresound couse of resonance. Cheers
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Joe
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2007, 04:22 PM » |
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To give you an idea of its acceptability---
I believe Roland's latest brain contains an option to include snare buzz on the toms and bass drum.
It's like a Bosendorfer Imperial Grand---the snares adding ambiance to the drumset sound is like the contrabass strings sympathetic vibrations (and perhaps the larger soundboard as a whole) adding depth to the rest of the notes.
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I'm not a particularly slow player, yet I don't play fast. I play half-fast.
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heavyhitter
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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2007, 03:15 PM » |
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i have 5 snares in my collection , 2 of them have snare beds cut in the shells , i notice the snares dont vibrate on these 2
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yankeeboy13
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« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2007, 06:55 PM » |
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The easiest solution would be just leaving it.....you probably won't hear it over the other instruments in the band.
The long answer resides in the way your drummer tunes. I like to start with the lowest tom and work my way up in diameter, and pitch (I don't tune to actual notes, just to the pitch where the drums open up). If you tune this way, I find that there is a nice interval between drums (snare being highest pitched) and that sympathetic vibrations are never a problem. Plus, your kit sounds the best it possibly can.
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"All men die, but not all men really live" William Wallace, Braveheart.
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metalshredder
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« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2007, 11:39 AM » |
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I agree, yankeeboy. Also, the snare bed (should be in all snares) is important, as well as the tuning. I was taught to de-tune (a bit) the lugs directly on either side of the snare tie-strings, that should let the head apply a bit more pressure to the actual snare wires.
Don't forget about the obvious-the tighten-screw on the snare strainer. Try tightening it up a bit, if you havent already. I've typically found that there is a perfect balance between head tension and the strainer adjustment screw(knob). In my experience, high snare head tension and moderate strainer adjustment. Play with it.
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yankeeboy13
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2007, 01:53 PM » |
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Don't forget about the obvious-the tighten-screw on the snare strainer... Play with it.
Agreed. What I like to do is to loosen it all the way so that there is no snare sound, then slowly tighten it while hitting the drum with a stick in the other hand. When you find the pitch you really like, leave it there. If you go too far, it will choke the drum and if you don't go far enough, it will be too rattly.
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"All men die, but not all men really live" William Wallace, Braveheart.
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metalshredder
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« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2007, 10:31 AM » |
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One more thing...don't forget the importance of correct head tuning. Release the snare strainer, set the drum on carpet, and check the pitch at each lug on the batter head. If these are off, it can really give some strange sounds and response. One might think it's not important on a snare, since the wires are basically choking the drum, but not true. I'll say its not as critical as a tom, but still very important. It can do really strange things if its not right.
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Chip71
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« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2007, 06:57 PM » |
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Even tho I have some good drums, sometime I had that problem with the bass player making my wires vibrate. I tried to losen the wire tension, but the bass still done the same problem. Then I tried these. http://www.puresoundpercussion.com/equalizer.htm The split made the snare just a little "drier" in sound. But the problem stopped and it saved canning the bass player.  Problem solved. 
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"When you quit learning you start dieing"-My Grandfather
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Rich452
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« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2007, 09:14 PM » |
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Another tuning solution is to tune the bottom head slightly higher than the top. Then make sure that the snare is NOT tuned to "rattle" when the toms or the bass drum(s) are hit. Once that is acheived, loosen the tuning lugs just on either side of the snares approximately 1/2 to 3/4 of turn. That should get rid of any rattle.
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Hairy
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« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2007, 06:22 AM » |
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I was at a jazz concert a couple of years ago, and the drummer had his snare drum tuned so that the snares buzzed with everything. It made the kit sound alive! I've tried to replicate this with my Yammie snare, but just can't get the hang of it. Was it Miles Davis who gave a recording engineer a hard time over snare buzz complaints and told him that it's supposed to buzz and rattle? It's a snare drum after all! Doesn't solve your problem, but it's another view. Mine buzzes a bit, and I like my snare drum just as it is. It's wonderful, it's got balls, and it sounds good. The rest of the band can learn to live with it....
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Older Pearl Session Select 5 piece, Aquarian heads, too many cymbals - Bosphorus, Sabian, Zildjian - currently 14" K Con hats, K Con med 22" old series ride, Bos 16" gold crash, Bos 20" Ferit LH ride/crash, Bos 8" trad splash, Yamaha 14x6.5 maple snare. Iron Cobra pedal.
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metalshredder
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« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2007, 10:32 AM » |
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Yeah, when the show is going on, I don't notice any snare buzz. I think it gets lost in the mix. (But we still know its there!) Haha, sounds like this thread did answer the question though.
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Gretsch Catalina Birch 7 piece Paiste Alpha and Signature Cymbals Tama Iron Cobra double pedal Evans EC2 and EMAD (currently)
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mroberge
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« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2007, 03:52 PM » |
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Dumb as it sounds, on my kit, the snare used to hum terribly. Then I figured out that if my snare was placed so that my snare wires are horizontal, the hum got worse. If I spin my snare 90 degreesso that the wires are verticle, they quiet down.
I've never been able to figure out exactly why, but it helps me get the snare buzz down to an acceptable level.
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Louis
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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2007, 04:30 PM » |
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I have never thought about rotating the snare to solve sympathetic buzz. When you say horizontal and vertical do you mean parallel and perpendicular in relation to the bass drum? Normally my throw-off is on the left front where I can reach it easily. This would place my snare wires at a 45 degree angle in relation to the bass drum.
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metalshredder
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« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2007, 04:56 PM » |
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I never thought of it before, but there might actually be some merit to the rotational idea. Imagine the way the sound waves might be radiating from the tom's reso heads, if you could see them. Come to think of it, mine is rotated vertical too. I don't get much buzz.
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Gretsch Catalina Birch 7 piece Paiste Alpha and Signature Cymbals Tama Iron Cobra double pedal Evans EC2 and EMAD (currently)
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mroberge
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« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2007, 07:15 PM » |
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I used to keep my snare throw at 3 o'clock, now I keep it at 12 o'clock. It's not a cureall for snare buzz, but it helps on my set.
I am curious to see what your results are. I just figured it was my set, or maybe the way the acoustics bounce around in my basement. It would be nice to see if it works elsewhere.
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Antman
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« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2007, 01:27 AM » |
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Come to think of it, mine is rotated vertical too.
Hehehehe this is why there's a plethora of drummer jokes out there in the world.
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wHeeeee!
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