Since picking up Jojo Mayer's incredible Secret Weapons for the Modern Drummer DVD, I've become obsessed with investigating and incorporating the Gladstone technique, which employs a very loose grip and a middle-finger fulcrum (as opposed to a index-finger-and-thumb fulcrum) to allow maximum stick rebound and resonance.  It's pretty hard to argue against the merits of this approach.  I've become so obsessed that I find myself flipping through new and old copies of drum magazines to see if photos of drummers' hands show the tell-tale sign that they use a Gladstone fulcrum: the index finger nearly detached from the stick and almost pointing downward, or in a loose curled position but not wrapped around the stick.  Is this the "secret weapon Jojo is referring to?  Is this the rarely discussed key to speed, endurance, and, ultimately, musicality on the drum set? 

I was most curious to find out if my favorite drummer, Neil Peart, used this technique, so I popped in a recent Rush live DVD.  There it was: that detached index finger and what appeared to be a Gladstone grip propelling those brutally tiring (at least for me) sixteenth-notes on the hi-hats through Tom Sawyer and plenty of other tunes.

Man, it is hard for me to get used to this grip, as I have been using a index-finger-and-thumb fulcrum for over 25 years.  But I keep plugging away because I know I'll be rewarded with a new level of endurance, which will allow me to focus on making music and not so much on how tired my hands and arms are!

To satisfy my own curiosity, I'd really like to know how common this grip is among forum members.  Do you use the Gladstone grip (or something like it) as your primary grip?  For the most part, is your stick rebounding freely off your middle finger when you play?

Is this what you're referring to?

I guess I use that grip unconsciously, but that's not how I play "legit" snare drum or classical percussion.

I have no idea what fulcrum I use, but I can assure it is not Billy Gladstone's 

Thanks!  Playing with Kevin is great.  He's an incredibly talented and prolific songwriter, and he's also hilarious!  For someone like me who was raised on punk rock, it's really great to be playing with someone who made such an impact on that scene.

I've been struggling with the Gladstone grip for a short while. For most applications, it's been working wonders for me. However, when it comes to quiet playing (particularly ghost notes, it is much more difficult. It DOES really clear up ghost strokes, especially fast diddles... but it's really taking a lot of work.

I've been incorporating this fulcrum(middle finger/thumb) into my playing for the last year. I've gained some speed, especially at higher volumes.

I am also working on other hand techniques that use different fulcrums. I rented JoJo Mayer's DVD from Netflix and started getting into some of the things he's doing.

Now when I say "getting into" - I mean I'm practicing them. I've started to form a new overarching concept about both foot and hand technique. The quick summary is that all of these methods and techniques such as Moeller, valving, Gladstone, etc for hands and heel-toe , heel down, Steve Smith stuff for feet should be given attention. They eventually coalesce into an organic reality of how you play. I know some players are always gong to be heel down or up and some players will always use French grip or traditional. I'm trying to spend time in different areas, especially with my feet right now, in hopes of all of these specific approaches coming together and complimenting each other.

I started thinking about this when I noticed that even though I tend to play heel up most of the time, when I practiced heel down, my general bass drum playing became more fluid. Same thing could be said for practicing with bounce or no bounce on hands stuff. Both approaches figure into the the big picture so I go for both.

There is the danger of dilution due to constriction of time for practcing.So far I haven't encountered that (although I never feel I have enough time to practice). I do believe at pne point I'll have to  spend more time on one area or the other to nail certain aspects.

My .02

Jim

I highly recommend Jojo's DVD.

BTW:  Jojo says that with proper technique you won't have calluses -- and your heads won't get dented up, and you'll break far fewer sticks (at least this has been his experience).

When I went to the master class tigerbill put on a couple of springs ago he said it was harder for older drummers to incorporate the gladstone technique; old bad habits die hard I guess.  Compared to Tiger Bill or Jo JO I have terrible hand technique but compared to most players it's ok.  I know what I should do but I don't!

I personally don't think about how I play other than I throw the stick down and it bounces back up.  Sometimes I have to pull the stick with my fingers.  Sometimes I whip the stick and sometimes I play with my fingers and sometimes wrists. Whatever, for me it boils down to, the more I play the easier it is for me to play.

I really don't want to have too pretty or jazzy of a technique.  It's not something I want to spend alot of time on.  As long as I can play without breaking a sweat and looking good that's cool.

Judging by my callouses, I use my forefinger and thumb...but I now may have to start tinkering with that...Bob

Holy mother, Bill's hands are insane. There's some video on his site of him doing ungodly fast strokes in one hand that to this day are mind-blowing.

I've been trying to adopt Gladstone since I got back into playing this summer -- but as you said, old habits die hard. However, I'm noticing I don't have the endurance I want and get hand pain if I'm doing prolonged uptempo stuff, especially in my right hand -- to the point that it's definitely becoming an issue in my playing.

Maybe over the next few weeks I'll get to finally spend some quality time with Jojo, Bill, Joe and Danny (and maybe Steve while I'm at it) and drill this stuff into muscle memory with stone killers and whatnot.

Elements have snuck in finally but not the key ones.

It depends on what I'm doing. Primarily, however, my fulcrum is now at the middle-finger after several years of work to change it from the index finger. I still use an index-thumb fulcrum for lighter playing, particularly on ride cymbals, or rolls requiring lots of finger control (French Grip), etc. I also play with almost no fulcrum a la Tony Williams, especially when I'm laying into rimshot backbeats.

I'm now studying with a jazz pro in my region, someone who has studied with
multiple big boys of jazz. 

Anyway, yesterday we discussed my fulcrum, among other things.
He wants me to work on a strong index finger based fulcrum, with the stick
laying on the middle section of the index finger.

When I returned to drumming, after doing lots of reading and watching Weckl and other videos, I tried to rework my grip, and after a while I naturally fell into a middle finger
based fulcrum.

I came home yesterday and started trying the index finger stuff, and it - as expected - felt weird.  I just wrote my teacher to discuss it further, asking if the point was more about
Strengthening my fulcrum or if I really need to move to an index finger fulcrum.

I see we discussed a bit of this at the end of 2007.  If anybody has any commentary, fire away.   Thanks.

I think Jojo's secret weapon is he has mastered all of those techniques and employed hybrids to get done what he wants to get done. The real secrets of that disc are on the second page/disc.

The "Jojo Mayer-Moeller Grip" is probably the gold most drummers are looking for there. The part where he gets the two-finger pumping action going while employing Moeller-style stroking ... I got goose bumps. That is about as efficient as it gets. You can tell by watching him once you develop the coordination -- and it is considerable -- it becomes the equivalent of cold fusion: You could drive those sticks about as fast as you could imagine without breaking a sweat. Minimal impact on critical joints and bones.

So to answer your question, fulcrums are meant to be switched around based on your comfort level and knowledge of what you're doing. The ONLY IMPORTANT THING about a fulcrum is that one is maintained so the stick is allowed to pivot in your fingers. Length of your fingers, size of your hands, and grip will determine comfort most of the time.

Hey guys, I have a question that's related to this. Ok, so I have this DVD. It turns out half the stuff that Jojo was talking about I was already doing half of them. So my question is, should you be thinking about these things when your playing? Should you be saying to yourself, "wow i need to change my fulcrum to the thumb and index position." As Gregg Bissonettes says, "You never want to be thinking, you just want to let go and let god". Like when I play, I never think about stuff like that, the Moeller technique came natural to me. I dont know why, I just started to use it when was  playing fast music, and at my first drum lesson he told me to play a fast beat, and told me I was doing the Moeller Method. I of course had no clue what that was. So thats my question, should we be thinking about our fulcrum while playing. Thanks guys


-EML.

Mr. A makes a great point, learn all the different techniques you can, it's another tool to use.  I just had this discussion with my 12 year old last week.  He learned his technique from me. I play with the stick down the middle of the hand resting in the crease that runs down toward your arm.  My teacher was a student of the famous Henry Adler in NYC.  His teacher wants to change him to the newer technique of out the side of the hand.  Saying that my technique is considered Henry Adler old school style and the snare players today are generally going back to the 90degree side of hand deal.  My son about had a fit.  I said "look the Doc knows exactly what he's doing you play the way he says. The more of these techniques you know the better off you'll be."  His teacher is the new bread of college professor out of Eastman.  So,  learn all the fulcrums/strokes/techniques you can it'll make you a better player in the end.