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Author Topic: Rudiment progress  (Read 453 times)
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New York Frank
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« on: December 23, 2007, 07:38 PM »

After what felt like no steps for quite some time, I have to write about a significant step I recently took with improving my rudiments.

It happened when I started working on:  Singles with one hand
RRRR RRRR RRRR RRRR LLLL LLLL LLLL LLLL

Whenever I do that and start to try to bring that up to speed, it points out the differences in my hands and the overall relative weakness in my left hand.
Alternating like that, after 16 or so, makes me try to feel over on the left what I'm feeling on the right. 

I did this for a few days, and now my doubles and paradiddles are cleaning up and getting faster with less effort.    My doubles in particular just got a big kick in the butt.

I'm sticking with this for a couple of weeks.   To be continued...

 Cool
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Paicey
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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2007, 08:02 PM »

A great thread N.Y. Ive been working on my left hand doing very similar things and progress (as I want it) is painfully slow but I am seeing it. Im doing RRR LLL RRR LLL as well as RR LLL RR LLL RRR LLLL RRR LLLL's. Im working on getting Dave Weckls single stroke roll. Ian Paice's single stroke on Space truckin. Jerry Edmontons single stroke roll on Steppenwolfs Move Over is amazing. Ive been putting my left hand under the microscope and have noticed grip problems that im addressing. I need muscle development in that hand as well. More on this tomorrow. Goodnight all you crazy people! Wink.
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New York Frank
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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2007, 08:09 PM »

I'm doing the exercise in triplets, too, and it's actually the triplets that are *teaching* my hands.  The triplets are naturally bringing out the *trigger* part of the stroke with the fingers that I am weak at.

Consider doing the triplets alternating the hands less.
Instead of  RRR  LLL
try 10 minutes of

RRR RRR RRR RRR RRR RRR RRR RRR
LLL LLL LLL LLL LLL LLL LLL LLL


taking that slow and inching the metronome up to speed.
This is really helping me.  I'm very excited actually.    Grin
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Paicey
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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2007, 01:34 PM »

Dave has this stroke and pull method Grin that is giving me fits on double stroke rolls but it sounds SO much better than just letting the stick bounce on the second stroke. For me personally I really feel that attention to my left hand seperately will help a great deal. Im paying close attention to stick height as well as any grip differences that may be hindering progress. Ive actually got the speed that Dave has with each hand singularly (doing singles) but its the (coordination) of putting the two hands together in the act that has me needing more work.

Im also paying attention to the JoJo Meyer DVD for added help with this hand gymnastic stuff. Im not even sure if ill be using any of this musically to be honest but ive always admired drummers with amazing technique like Buddy, Dave, Steve, Vinmeister etc etc so here I am. Ive been working for a few months now on this but as little as 15 minutes at a time a few times a day. Maybe I need a dedicated hour?.

I WILL have Jerry Edmontons speed with singles or ill die trying Angry, ive come this far. Since I dont have the luxury of a teacher im going the distance on my own Rocky Balboa style. I also want Peter Erskines ride cymbal speed....good luck on tha huh Embarrassed but I aint stoppin bro. NEVER! Angry.
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New York Frank
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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2007, 01:57 PM »

The Pulls are now coming out in my stroke by doing all the single handed practice with triplets.  If you bring triplets up to speed with one hand, you'll almost Have to start doing the pulls naturally.  That's what I'm finding, anyway.

I'm actually having a ball on this for the first time.  Rudiment work has always been a chore for me, but this mini breakthrough has put a big smile on my face. 

I don't know what the expert teachers would say, but I would tend to think a few 15 minute sessions of this per day might be Better than one marathon session.
In my case, I have to take breaks, because I can Feel the left hand muscles waking up and getting worked.

I'm not doing it for speed as much as for cleanliness and control.  I'm really starting to hear a difference now.

                <   <   <   <
RRR RRR RRR RRR RRR RRR RRR R

                <   <   <   <
LLL LLL LLL LLL LLL LLL LLL L

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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2007, 09:53 PM »

The triple strokes can only help your double strokes. Shooting for that extra stroke on each hand will help you identify how to relax better on the preceding strokes.

The next trick will be mixing singles and doubles. It will feel like to entirely different approaches at first.
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« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2007, 07:22 PM »

I believe my initial problem was to play doubles as Dave demonstrated to literally. I was trying to do it as demonstarted (slowly) but only faster. Your hands are actually ON the stick constantly, there IS no opening and closing of the hand super fast and that was my block.
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« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2007, 04:42 AM »

I believe my initial problem was to play doubles as Dave demonstrated to literally. I was trying to do it as demonstarted (slowly) but only faster. Your hands are actually ON the stick constantly, there IS no opening and closing of the hand super fast and that was my block.

Ah, well, then allow me to suggest the most important thing to keep an eye on is your fulcrum as you work on this slowly. Make sure you're getting stick pivot. If your wrist is doing all the pivoting and the stick is not pivoting between your fingers, you'll pay for that sooner or later. It takes longer to build up speed when you're also working to maintain a decent fulcrum, but you'll eventually figure out how to work the back fingers to regain control of the stick on the rebound ... and that second stroke in the double stroke will become more of a function of stick intertia and finger snap than actual wrist stroke.

Do that in earnest over a couple of months and your doubles will be cleaner than a baby's butt at any tempo and in any expression.

Something else to consider is practicing doubles over a triplet skeleton. This is how I usually get my students going. They play a bar of triplets and a bar of doubles over the triplet. The doubles are sextuplets -- not 32nd notes like you would get with a double stroke roll over sixteenths -- but they're easier to clean up. It's just a more "open" skeleton pattern and easier to pull off at first. I think it's human instinct to relax during triplets, anyway. Don't know.

If that's too much, just use an 8th-note skeleton and play 16th-note double strokes for now. You should be able to hear them and get them lined up so they're metrically accurate.
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« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2007, 12:31 PM »

Great advice from all.

Here's what I did to get my dbls burning:

RLLRLL RLLRLL RLLRLL RLLRLLas well as LRRLRR LRRLRR LRRLRR LRRLRR

Play these exercises as a fast sextuplet where the leading hand is on the 1/8th note.

Learn to play this on every surface.

It sounds cool and is very easy.  Plus you can really get them to burn.  When you get better mix them with dbl paradiddles as well as dbling the complete sextuplet grouping RRLLRR LLRRLL- this stuff smokes.
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2007, 01:24 PM »

I used to practice triplets, then 5 stroke rolls, back to triplets, etc....
My 5 stroke rolls became very fast and clean sounding by doing this.
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