Smitty
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« on: November 12, 2007, 09:57 AM » |
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Im curious about how tambourines are used in the studio. In particular, what is the most common way to get the "rolling" tambourine sound that accompanies many pop choruses? Is the tambourine more commonly played by hand or with sticks to achieve this propelling jingle? How has sampling and Pro Tools affected the use of tambourine sounds in the studio, including (for lack of a better phrase) the rolling sound?
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2007, 10:07 AM » |
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My experience and what I know of other studio percussionists ... the Tambourine is typically played live, by hand, for Tambourine rolls and rhythms. Sticks can be used if you want the sound that you get when using drumsticks ... which is a lot of attack ... the sticks clicking on the instrument.
I'm assuming that you are talking about the modern-day, headless, Tambourine.
Samples can be used and are used. To say which is used more, samples or live playing, would be hard to access without listening to every album in existence or speaking with every producer/engineer or drummer/percussionist who uses Tambourine in the studio.
Pro Tools (and the like) plus samples have allowed musicians to add Tambourine quite easily. Especially useful when the Tambourine is not going to be exposed in the track ... like when using it with a loop. Even though I'm a studio drummer and percussionist, I've used Tambourine samples on my projects ... especially when it's just backbeats and not a rhythm. It allows me to quickly line up the Tambourine with the Snare drum. Many engineers will trigger the Tambourine using the Snare drum track.
I'm not exactly sure what your aim is with your questions or what purpose the answers might serve. My suggestion is to cut to the chase. Are you needing to add Tambourine to a project and don't know what to do?
Each situation is different and unique. There are many variables that affect my decision as to whether I would use a live Tambourine or a sample.
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Smitty
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2007, 10:49 AM » |
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I'm not exactly sure what your aim is with your questions or what purpose the answers might serve. My suggestion is to cut to the chase. Are you needing to add Tambourine to a project and don't know what to do? Thanks, Bart. Good info! Okay, Ill cut to the chase. Ill be recording soon, and Id like to add some rolling /rhythmic tambourine sounds to a few choruses. My hand tambourine skills are pretty much nonexistent, and Im wondering if it would be feasible to overdub single- stroke rolls with sticks (or mallets?) on a headless tambourine to achieve that rolling sound. Alternatively, we will be using Pro Tools, so maybe it would be easier to obtain a sample – whatever it takes to get the best sound. Any suggestions?
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2007, 10:59 AM » |
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I'm not sure what you mean about the "rolling" sound. Is it a shake roll, continuous sound ... or is it a rhythm, like consecutive sixteenth-notes? If you can't play it then it would seem you have three options: 1) Hire someone who can play it. 2) Use samples. 3) Experiment and see what you can come up with. I can't say that what you are trying to do by mounting the Tambourine and using a apparatus to strike the instrument will work and sound the way you want. The instrument, the apparatus, the room, the mic, etc., are all factors in getting a desired sound. I would suggest trying what you are wanting to try and see what happens. That will be the quickest way to get an answer and we won't have to guess whether it will work or not.  You can send me the Pro Tool files and I'll track the Tambourine for you here at my studio! 
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Smitty
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« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2007, 12:22 PM » |
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Thanks, Bart!
I think the shake roll might be what I'm referring to. It's that rolling "chinga-chinga-chinga" sound that accompanies many 4/4 pop choruses. The drummer is usually playing straight eigths on the hi-hat or ride, and the tambourine sound to which I refer adds a underlying rolling sixteenth-note feel, which propels the rhythm nicely
I'll give it a shot with sticks and any available samples and see how it turns out!
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Chip71
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« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2007, 12:45 PM » |
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I've used a Tamborine many times over the years. I prefer a wooden style about 14" diameter with great sounding "bells" that jingle real nice when they strike each other. I've use them both by hand hitting against the palm of the other hand. Or by shaking the Tamborine holding wrist in a back and forth fashion. If you practice it you can get a jingle going in time with each other. It can sound very much like a snake ratteling it's tail when shaken fast enough. That type of Tamborine can also be laid on your top high hat cymbal. If the hat has a strong enough spring it can be played with the time of the hat. But if the hat has a weak spring it's better to just keep the cymbals together and strike the Tamborine with a stick. Whenever I bought a hat that's why I always insisted on a good one. I knew what was in store for it. 
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dannydrumperc
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2007, 08:42 AM » |
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Playing the 16s is not that difficult – just rock the thing back and forth in a consistent manner. There are some more complicated techniques and patterns, but if all you need are steady 16s that will do it. Luis Contes Studio Percussionist video has excellent lessons on how to approach the tambourine. What is difficult is to track an even tambourine sound. You have to be very careful with the way you move your hand(s) - how far the tambourine moves on each swing - in front of the mic and how close to the mic you may put your other hand (or other tambourine, drumstick, cowbell, block, etc.) for the back beat. There are some percussion libraries available from DrumCore too. http://www.submersiblemusic.com/TemplateMain.aspx?contentId=47
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bermuda
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2007, 11:11 AM » |
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What is difficult is to track an even tambourine sound. You have to be very careful with the way you move your hand(s) - how far the tambourine moves on each swing - in front of the mic and how close to the mic you may put your other hand (or other tambourine, drumstick, cowbell, block, etc.) for the back beat. I do a fair amount of 16th tambourine stuff, and it's pretty straight ahead. I hold the tamb in my right hand, and with horizontal movements 'play' 8ths to my left hand. I hit my hand for the accent - whether it's on the upbeat or backbeat, it falls on an 8th - and the 16ths come from the back & forth movement. Recording is also easy, and a good engineer will know this. Mic placement is obviously important, but to get even levels so the shaking cuts through, some compression will smooth things out. The 'hit' will still be prominent since it has a different sound to begin with. A trick the Beatles used was to gaff tape 2 tambourines together for a really thick sound. No telling how hard that was to play, but there's no denying that it always sounded great on their recordings! Also, tambourine sounds vary somewhat. I usually start with a nickel or brass jingle Rhythm Tech (half-moon) tambourine, but I also have a container full of maybe 25 tambourines of various sizes, materials, with & without heads, and with single and double-rows of jingles. (If you think that's a lot, you should see my maraca/shaker collection!) So a tamb that sounds sweet and jangly by itself may not cut through the music well... something drier may have the right vibe. It's probably a good idea to get 3 or 4 sufficiently different tambourines to have on hand so you'll always have a variety of sounds. And they don't have to be the $40-60 high end ones either - Stagg has one for about $15, and the Rhythm Tech ones are $20-22. Have fun! Bermuda
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Smitty
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« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2007, 02:49 PM » |
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Wow!
As usual, you guys have provided all the information I need and more!
I definitely need to check out Luis Contes Studio Percussionist video!
And how cool to get such a thorough and informative response from Bermuda!
Thanks so much!!!
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marker
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2007, 07:24 PM » |
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One other thing. If you're just going to shake it, use both hands. More control, less fatigue. Also, the lighter it is (assuming it sounds alright), the easier life will be.
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dea
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« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2007, 02:34 PM » |
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I adhore the tamborine.
Here is my tambo setup.
* Left side pedal with tambo - Works great when stomping out half notes, or even quarters as the ride groove is in full swing. * Left side tambo for stick strikes. * Right side tambo for stick strikes. Quick-n-shortlived tambo strikes - somewhere within fills - is also killer.
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David Crigger
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« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2007, 12:47 PM » |
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One other thing. If you're just going to shake it, use both hands. More control, less fatigue. Also, the lighter it is (assuming it sounds alright), the easier life will be.
But then you don't have a hand free for accents. And sadly the best sounding tambourine isn't always (actually rarely - see Bermuda's Beatles post above) the lightest. So unless you've really got your chops together (and I never have) there is no avoiding the infamous cramping right arm in the last chorus syndrome. :-) dc
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David Crigger
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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2007, 02:45 PM » |
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Thanks, Bart!
I think the shake roll might be what I'm referring to. It's that rolling "chinga-chinga-chinga" sound that accompanies many 4/4 pop choruses. The drummer is usually playing straight eigths on the hi-hat or ride, and the tambourine sound to which I refer adds a underlying rolling sixteenth-note feel, which propels the rhythm nicely
I'll give it a shot with sticks and any available samples and see how it turns out!
As you've probably surmised by some of the posts - the chinga-chinga-chinga sound you're referring to isn't a shake roll - it's just called "playing 16th's on the tambourine". One of the three most common things tambourines do in pop music - the other two being "playing 1/8th notes" and "playing the back beat (hits on 2 and 4 only)". You can try playing with sticks - but I really doubt this will get you the sound you are look for. You really should try your hand at learning to "shake that thing" so to speak... it's not really that hard... check this out (I've been looking for an excuse to try this) - http://www.davidcrigger.com/drummercafe/tamb101.mov(and obviously don't mic the tambourine with a laptop camera when doing your recording) :-) dc
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marker
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« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2007, 06:46 PM » |
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My preferred tamborine for shaking and hitting accents is a crappy little 6" Remo. You can shake and slap for the duration of a song with it without killing your hands. I have also had a tambourine and a riq overdubbed on the same track. I thought it was going to be one or the other, but the engineer used them both. No duct tape. 
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2008, 09:51 AM » |
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I've created a new resource, a one-hour video lesson entitled ROCK TAMBOURINE 101; available to all VIP Members. For the next two weeks I'll be sharing excerpts from the lesson on Drummer Cafe TV. If you are a drummer who has played very little percussion, of if you have limited knowledge of the various techniques used on Tambourine, I think you'll find this video lesson extremely useful.
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
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Louis
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« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2008, 07:30 PM » |
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Excellent video lesson Bart!
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TeReKeTe
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« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2008, 09:14 PM » |
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a good 16th-note tambo track is all about sturdy wrists. and the corresponding sore shoulder that comes with it.
mic-wise, if you've got a say in the matter, a condenser is good but you almost always need to have a pad engaged (or an engineer who knows that a tambo will clip a sensitive mic in a heartbeat).
also-- if you're recording in a digital medium, then start your pattern a measure or 2 early so that you're in the groove once the section starts; it's super-easy to edit out the parts you don't want.
double-tracking a tambo on 16ths with hits on 2&4 on a 2nd track is a good trick.
bermuda, i remember hearing that story about the beatles and my shoulder hurting just hearing about it.... and it still hurts. yikes!
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