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Author Topic: Getting a lot out of a little  (Read 979 times)
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Mister Acrolite
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« on: December 11, 2002, 01:51 PM »

Last Sunday a sax player I work with invited me to a jazz gig he was playing, where he said sitting in was welcomed. The musicians on the gig were all good players, and the drummer is a guy I know, a super nice guy and very tasty player. So I went.

It was at a nice restaurant, so we sat down and ordered dinner and enjoyed the music. Everybody was playing great, and the drummer took some 4's on most of the tunes, taking a couple choruses on one. Nice stuff.

After about half an hour of listening I noticed for the first time that all the drummer was using was a bass, snare, 2 cymbals, and a hihat. No toms. And I never missed 'em. The angle of our table made it hard for me to see his kit, so it had gone unnoticed all that time.

But the MAIN reason it had gone unnoticed was that this guy was comfortable enough on this ultra-minimal kit that he could make as much music as he needed with just 2 drums.

Here I'll slip into old-fart mode, and suggest that everybody try paring down your kit occasionally, doing a rehearsal or maybe even an actual gig with far less equipment than you're used to. It can really freshen up your approach, by forcing you to get a lot out of a little.

I sat in on a few tunes, and had a blast. He had gorgeous Istanbul cymbals, and a tiny 16" bass drum that just sang, along with a very warm 3.5x14 wood snare. I've known this guy for a few years, but had forgotten that he and I share one thing in common: an almost pathological hatred for schlepping gear.  Wink He'd had this kit custom built, and he could pack the whole thing in 2 cases so he could get in and out in one trip. A man after my own heart, as anybody who has seen my "microkit" webpage will realize.

Anyway, I just really dug what this guy was accomplishing. I've played big kits over the years, and every time I've pared it down it's taken a while to adjust. But every time I've done it, it's breathed new life into my playing. I do a lot of gigs with a cocktail drum these days, so I've gotten used to playing all night on a minimal kit, and I recommend the experience.

And there's guys who use even less. Pete Amaral, who tours with the highly entertaining guitar chopsmonster Junior Brown, only uses a snare and a cymbal! And Max Roach is legendary for bringing just his hihat out to the center of the stage, and playing an amazing solo on it.

When I was in college, David Baker used to rehearse his own quintet in his tiny office, and he would only allow me to bring a ride, snare, and hihat - and I was expected to take solos. It was GREAT training.

Anyway, nothing against big kits. But I do believe that it's a great test to learn how to express yourself very comfortably on a minimized drumkit - it can force you to explore the basic components of your kit in ways that might not have occurred to you.
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2002, 02:01 PM »

I'm right with ya on this one Keith!  I always rehearse with a minimal kit.  I ONLY use the full kit for gigs.  when I play a Jazz gig, I use a kit similar to the one your buddy played, except with the 22" kick and the Ride and Hats form my big kit.  I'd love to have a seperate kit for that kinda stuff, that way there would be even less "schlepping."  LOL!!   Grin
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2002, 04:20 PM »

Funny... Mark and I were talking about this very subject on the phone last night.

I went to a sub gig one night in which I knew a kit would be provided. Turns out there was a kick, snare, hat, ride, and crash. Nothing else. I panicked for a second, but then sat down behind the kit just to get my bearings.

It turned out to be one of the most enjoyable gigs I've ever done (funk gig with a bit of jazz and blues). It wasn't so much the players, cause half of them I'd played with before. The beautiful Noble & Cooley snare might have had something to do with it. Smiley But mostly it was the stripped down nature of the kit that allowed me to focus.

Thing is... with minimal kits like these, you really get to know the individual components, and at the same time, gain appreciation for the kit as an instrument, as a cohesive thing. Accents, dynamics, placement of the sticks in different areas of the snare and ride, all these things lead you to play in a more focused state. I love these kinds of setups.
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2002, 05:53 PM »

I abosolutely agree with you, Mr_A... it's been my observation that drummers with small kits really kick a$$.  My drummer bud in town has this huge kit and I always tease him about that.  But don't you think it also has to do with the type of music you play?  I view music as this "continuim"... jazz on one end of the spectrum and heavy metal/hard rock on the opposite end.  Jazz has lots of subtle snare strokes and few tom & base strokes, whereas rock has more tom/base.  At least that's my view.
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2002, 10:02 PM »

when i started back in on "normal kit" playing i only allowed myself snare, bass, ride, hats.  until i felt i had learned them well enough to justify adding more.  as jim mentioned, i learned how to get as many voices as possible out of each part.  and when i started on the improv scene thats the kit i played.  partially because i also played upright bass and our gigs were in cafes Wink
(the original ham and treachery kit ... single headed 20" bass, acrolite snare, 14" sabian B8 hats, old 16" avedis marching crash as a ride)



i play 5 pieces with the pop band.  but sometimes only ride, snare, bass.  so why have all the other stuff? because sometimes i just play 14" tom, ride, bass ... or sometimes all of it.  i have the options, i use them or dont as its needed.

as for paul's continuum? im going to be contentious, a pot stirrer if you will.  jazz and rock have those elements you mentioned if the drummer chooses to employ them.  there is no given.  i love hearing lots of toms and bass in a jazz setting, and the best rock drummers can pull off the subtlety and nuance thats expected of jazz cats.  

[size=-2]just my ongoing effort to eliminate pigeonholing  Smiley  [/size]
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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2002, 06:27 AM »

I thought a 5 piece was a small kit?

I guess not.

I think mr a invented a new phenomenon

"the micro kit"

I like that
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2002, 06:51 AM »

if I were doing a lot of traveling.. like you professional drummers probably do, I'd want a micro kit just to minimize the aggravation.  

here's my yardstick:

micro kit = 16" base, one or two small toms
small kit =  base, one ride tom, one floor tom
large kit =  anything > small
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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2002, 09:02 AM »

Oddly enough, last night I had a rehearsal with my cover band.  Since we had played last weekend, I had no desire to haul my kit over to the practice room to set it up, only to break it right down for gigs this weekend.  I decided to break out the old Rockstar and used a kick, snare, ride and hats for a quick rehersal.   What a blast!!

Anyway, MR. A, I have thought about taking some old drums I have and making a "micro kit" as well.  I see the Yamaha Hip Gigs are over $1500, which is way too high.  Your webpage really simplified the thought process for me, thanks.
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« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2002, 09:30 AM »

I have band practice oddly enough tonight as well.

I'm going to do a kick, snare and drag my roland SD-6 over there.  Should be a hoot.  

PS...I sold my electrics last weekend...so I'm down to two drumsets which means I can buy another now!!!!

YEAH!!!! WOOO HOOO!
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« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2002, 10:12 AM »

My wife and I went to a wedding a  couple of weeks ago and the band featured two of the original members of "Pure Prairie League"  It was cool because the drummer used a snare, hi-hat, 18" bass drum and that was it!  Man was he tight.  They played several Allman Brothers songs and the drummer was right in the pocket the whole time.   And of course when they played "Amie" everybody cheered!  He was a great singer to boot.  I agree more is not always best, it's how you use less!  Wink

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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2002, 01:31 PM »

I'm going to do a kick, snare and drag my roland SD-6 over there.  

ive done that before with my yamaha 8 pad thing.  mounting it on top of my bass and using it for toms and effect cymbals.  sometimes even using it for bass. very handy option.
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« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2002, 01:12 AM »

how about getting enough out of less ...

so im at rehersal tonight.  starting setup, 14,12,16" toms ... 18,22,20" rides ... bass, snare, hats, 16" crash.  im using the 14" tom on occasion, and the third ride on occasion.  and on one song, thats all i use.  but i got to thinking.  what if i played this on the 16" floor tom instead of 14" tom and just used the ride over there.  well, it worked just as well.  setup by the end of rehersal, 12,16" toms ... 20,18,22" rides ... bass, snare, hats.  i got rid of one tom and the crash (all my rides are crashable).

i like variety.  i like options.  i like being able to mix things up a bit.  and because of that im prone to adding more and newer sounds to my kit all  the time.  is it nice to have? sure.  is it necessary? not at all.  not for what im doing.  which is essentially adding a big thick rhythmic carpet for the guitar and piano.

so ive made a compromise.  rehersal and gigging kit will be a 4 piece with 2 rides.  when it comes time to record, ill bring it all, and use it all.  ill get the variety there.  
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« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2002, 11:04 AM »

... And there's guys who use even less. Pete Amaral, who tours with the highly entertaining guitar chopsmonster Junior Brown, only uses a snare and a cymbal! ...

Yeah, but have you ever noticed HOW LONG it takes him to set up?!!  He sets the snare and cymbal, throne, adjusts this ... adjusts that ... gets up and looks at it from the back ... adjusts again ... gets up and looks at it from the right ... adjusts ... on and on ... like a golfer making a million-dollar put.

In the end, though, the results justify it ... I haven't missed a Junior Brown show yet ...
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2002, 01:20 PM »

This past summer I was saw a guy on the subway (here in NYC) playing a snare hi-hat and bass drum.  He could do more on those three pieces than I could with my huge kit, made me re-think my playing.
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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2002, 01:33 PM »

Mr. A,

Question.  Was this jazz gig at the Van Dyke Cafe?  If so, I don't know his name but I've saw that drummer a couple of years ago.  He's got great rudimental chops b/t his bass foot and snare.  He basically substitutes the bass drum for toms.  He also used one of those sizzle chains on his ride.

Same guy?

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« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2002, 01:44 PM »

Mr. A,
Question.  Was this jazz gig at the Van Dyke Cafe?  If so, I don't know his name but I've saw that drummer a couple of years ago.  He's got great rudimental chops b/t his bass foot and snare.  He basically substitutes the bass drum for toms.  He also used one of those sizzle chains on his ride.
Same guy?

This was up in Palm Beach - the drummer was Marty Campbell - I'm not sure if he gigs down in South Beach or not. But he does use a chain on his cymbal. Sweetheart of a guy. He and his partner/bassist Susan ran the Jazz Showcase in Palm Beach until its demise. The two of them do a lot to promote live jazz here.
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« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2002, 04:44 PM »

Between the minimalist kit and the chain it sounds like he might be the same kat.  If so, he's a hot player.  I love his style and his bass foot facility.  The guy I saw was playing with the Van Dyke House band (bass player is the leader but I can't remember the name), with the late Pete Minger on flugelhorn.

Ratamatatt
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ravenzakanite
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« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2002, 07:46 AM »

i once played at a friend's party with an empty oil barrel and a snare. i played for a school thing with a 18" crash, 14" snare, and a 16" floor tom as a bass
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alanwatkinsuk
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« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2002, 03:35 PM »

What a very interesting thread.  I am not a kit drummer except for fun and I was only taught very "basic" kit drumming in the 1950s which then consisted of one snare, one hit hat, one bass drum, one suspended cymbal and (wow!) one floor tom.  

Sometimes I look at the boys and girls with some 16-piece set up and wonder: "How the hell you going to play that lot with one pair of sticks?"......that is NOT to say they cannot but it is just to wonder.

If you take Charlie Watts in Rolling Stones....not much of a kit and a traditional grip as well (and I don't recall Ringo having too many toms) it might be, possibly, that a "little" can be quite good.

I have a "salon" orchestra which plays music from about 1870-1950.  I have one snare, a hi-hat, one suspended cymbal, one bass drum.  I also have (depending on repertoire) one pair of timps (30/28). one glock, one zylophone, one pair of hi-lo "horses hooves", one triangle on stand, tambourine.  One player.

It's the most fun I have ever had.  We can do Puccini's La Boheme complete in twelve minutes!

As someone remarked about something else: it's not how big it is, it's what you do with it.

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins



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