Peppe
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« on: February 08, 2008, 07:27 AM » |
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What do you people feel is the best-feeling e-drum kit out there, (past to present)? Not wanting a gear-slamming thread, just individual opinions  Not just kits, Octapad/DrumKat devices are also welcome. My personal favorite is actually the original ddrum kit from around -85 or so.....I think it was called ddrum Rack  Anyway, it had four sounds per drum, bass/treble/pitch and sensitivity controls, and no MIDI. The most usable of the available sounds were no doubt the Simmons-kit that they sampled (think "Chicago 17"), they sounded really nice, actually. Not great for everything, though What I really liked about this kit however, was the sensitivity of the pads. To this day, I haven't found anything close to it. Not that I've tried every kit on the market. It should be noted, that the triggering systems are different, since the old ddrums were not MIDI devices. But these pads had the best dynamic response I've ever experienced in an electronic kit.
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diddle
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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2008, 09:07 AM » |
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poor dynamic response has been my primary complaint for E-drums.
I had Roland kits for a while but ultimately sold them on Ebay... one kit had a TD-8 and another had the TD-10 module. My buddy bought the flagship TD-12, along with the newer pads & hi-hats. There wasn't much difference in the sound on any of those modules, IMO ... and they all lacked the dynamic range (which is primarily a function of the transducers inside the pads) but they are very fun to play and easy to setup for recording.
I've heard that the DDrum module has superior sounds but I've never tried them.
Concerning the "feel" I much prefer mesh heads to the rubber pads. The mesh heads don't stress your joints as much as the rubber pads. Neither type of heads feel like real drums. I've heard that Heart Dynamics offers heads that come close to the feel of real drums.
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Peppe
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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2008, 04:37 PM » |
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I agree with you, the dynamic range is the real problem with e-drums. While I see that it's unfair to compare the different triggering systems of MIDI-pads and the older ddrum technology, I'm imagining that it should be possible to get a better response out of the 127 dynamic levels that MIDI offers. Again, I've only tried a few of the kits on the market. I must say though, that the convenience of an e-kit and the sounds available ( like the wonderful Toontrack libraries) keeps me interested. BTW, I have no financial interest in Toontrack. Possibly, I'm a little patriotic 
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2008, 05:35 PM » |
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They say (regular e-drummers) that poor dynamic response is down to a lot of tweaking of the settings, and not a basic problem with the kits. I've certainly seen some people play e-kits as if they were acoustic kits. Quite amazing. I haven't played any D-Drums although I've heard they are good. The best e-drums I've played have been by Hart Dynamics.
I think all the onboard sounds (Roland, Yamaha, Alesis etc are bad).
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Peppe
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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2008, 05:45 PM » |
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You're right, I haven't done much tweaking with the new kits either. And I imagine these settings are also dependent on the volume level, since our ears are not linear......maybe  The ddrum kit I'm speaking of, BTW, was made before ddrum AT, before ddrum 2, before ddrum +.........I'm not even sure if these things were available outside Sweden 
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diddle
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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2008, 07:42 PM » |
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They say (regular e-drummers) that poor dynamic response is down to a lot of tweaking of the settings, and not a basic problem with the kits. The best e-drums I've played have been by Hart Dynamics.
Tweaking of the settings can improve the response. However, the dynamic response is a design limitation of the transducer and, as such, has nothing to do with the user settings. One can minimize the inherent limitations by tweaking the user settings... for example, adjusting the "sensitivity" to "zero". The transducers used in E-drums are somewhat like switches (not exactly, but similar)... Hart Dynamics only manufactures pads... not the "module" or "brain" as some people call it. The module is what generates the sound... the pads that Hart makes are just the "switches" that trigger the module. Sooo, what does all that mean? Well, I can play an E-kit at a very low force and the module will never generate a sound... you could adjust settings until you are blue in the face but no sound will be generated... Thats what I dont like about E-drums! the church I play at has an older model Roland TD-10. Sometimes when I play at "ppp" level the darn module never makes a sound! I've since learned to play all the time at "fff" to ensure each note gets produced! That's what got me to not like E-drums! 
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2008, 09:26 PM » |
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Sooo, what does all that mean? Well, I can play an E-kit at a very low force and the module will never generate a sound... you could adjust settings until you are blue in the face but no sound will be generated...
Why? I started this thread because I was simply amazed at the dynamic playing on an e-kit by Nir-Z: http://www.drummercafe.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,2/topic,23065.0He's promoting a new product, but I believe he uses e-drums at his own studio a lot and has spent some time 'tweaking the settings' to suit his way of playing. If you can stand to watch the video all the way though, he plays whisper quiet at various points.
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diddle
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« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2008, 09:47 PM » |
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Why? I started this thread because ...
If you can stand to watch the video all the way though, he plays whisper quiet at various points.
I watched for a couple of minutes but got impatient... not sure what he was getting at... anyway... not wanting to argue about E-drums... just responding to the topic..
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jokerjkny
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« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2008, 10:17 PM » |
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i'm pretty happy with mine: 
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2008, 10:23 PM » |
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not wanting to argue about E-drums... just responding to the topic..
Hmm, I'm not arguing either. You proposed e-drums were never able to be played sensitively and at very low levels no matter how much they were tweaked. I merely posted a link to a film clip that I believe proves the opposite. Nir-Z is lightly tapping his Hart snare pad and the module and sound samples are responding in kind.
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2008, 10:27 PM » |
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Apologies for the salesman voice over..... But 50 seconds in Nir-Z is hardly tickling the Hart e-pads and the samples are still sounding:
http://www.youtube.com/v/GVUVnSzlAd8Even easier to hear at 1:29
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lopan
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« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2008, 11:34 PM » |
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What do you people feel is the best-feeling e-drum kit out there, (past to present)? Not wanting a gear-slamming thread, just individual opinions  Not just kits, Octapad/DrumKat devices are also welcome. I have a combination of Roland mesh pads and a Hart 13" mesh snare. They have a great "feel" when I play them. I joined a new band recently and I have been using a set of Pearls at the rehearsal room. I don't notice much difference in "feel" between the A kit and the E kit, but my ears do. The room and my ears were saturated with sound last night. Since this is a cover band it makes more sense to play the Es because I can get closer to the drum sound of the various music we're playing. I will probably stay with my acoustic cymbals though. As good as my Roland and Hart Ecymbals are, they don't sound as good as my 25 year old Zildjians.
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diddle
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2008, 10:04 AM » |
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yeah, synthesizing cymbal sounds pushes the limit of today's digital sound generators (the electronics inside the Roland box)... Chris, I understood your point with the video clip... my opinion on E-drums is based upon previously owning and playing this equipment for years... along with an intimate knowledge of how the electronics work (and how to tweak the user settings)... I did enjoy playing them and , yes, I was able to adjust the user settings to match my playing style. However, I was simply pointing out that Edrums do not have as good of dynamic range as Adrums... which can be measured and quantified in dBs (decibels)... that's not an opinion... that is a fact... can Louis (for example) adjust his Yamaha drums and play softly? Yes, of course. 
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Louis
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2008, 01:57 PM » |
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I was simply pointing out that Edrums do not have as good of dynamic range as Adrums... which can be measured and quantified in dBs (decibels)... that's not an opinion... that is a fact... can Louis (for example) adjust his Yamaha drums and play softly? If you set and forget they do not have the same range. The ekit requires different playing techniques. For some songs or parts of a song I must "turn up or turn down the volume" much the same as the guitar player. I worked with my ekit 2 years before I was comfortable enough to play it on a gig.
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2008, 03:47 PM » |
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I don't like playing them myself I admit. Rather than dynamics, I find the inability to hear different timbres with different stick strokes a barrier. I'm just so used to the feel of acoustic drums. Hearing the same couple of sounds, no matter where I hit the pad, just seems odd to me. But e-kits (with this software) are getting more and more responsive and more and more multi-timbral.
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New York Frank
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« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2008, 04:39 PM » |
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If I ever buy a legit electronic kit, it would be for rehearsal at night. I just can't see myself ever playing out with one - it's gotta be acoustic for me.
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eardrum
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« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2008, 02:49 AM » |
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Mine is a Roland V-Session with the TD10. I haven't played too many other kits, even within the Roland family but I absolutely love my V-Session. We've been slamm'n on this kit for years now and never had a problem. Everything has worked, the hardware is solid, documentation is decent, tech support at least for the one question I had was superior. The sensitivity/dynamic range is NOT the same as acoustic but out of the box without extra stuff it's very good. Good enough to do some pretty nice ghosting and to pop simulated rim shots. If I play very, very softly on the mesh heads, they don't respond whereas an acoustic would produce sound but it's at a level where an audience wouldn't hear it anyway. There is a more pronounced issue with the cymbals and this is the weakness. The sound and timbre is not acoustic but again, out of the box are some kit sounds that work really well in different settings and you can tweak everything or download a bunch of awesome stuff from different sites. I've taken this into live settings with a big band and rock/R&B thing and got lots of complements. In one case the Vdrum was need because it was an outdoor gig and the board had only one input available. Mic'g the acoustic would have required a separate sub mixer which I didn't have at the time. My preference is always to play an acoustic kit but the V-drum works - it's just different.
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diddle
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« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2008, 03:05 AM » |
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Mine was the V Session, too... also had a TD-8 with mesh heads... I actually liked the cheaper TD-8 better than the TD-10. I played lots of gigs with them and was very happy for a few years... used then to teach students... and they did great for some recordings. I just prefer A-kits now.
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NPYYZ
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« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2008, 06:33 AM » |
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I've been playing a set of Yamaha DTXTREME ll's for 2 years now. I don't play my acoustic kit anymore. The DTXTREMEll kit sounds and feels great. The new DTXTREME lll kit will be in my local drum shop in a few weeks and I'm picking one up. They've made some huge improvements and the kit is the best I've seen as far as E -kits go.
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New York Frank
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« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2008, 09:12 AM » |
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I've been playing a set of Yamaha DTXTREME ll's for 2 years now. I don't play my acoustic kit anymore. The DTXTREMEll kit sounds and feels great. The new DTXTREME lll kit will be in my local drum shop in a few weeks and I'm picking one up. They've made some huge improvements and the kit is the best I've seen as far as E -kits go.
Please tell more. What makes it the best for you?
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