Yeah good post!  I didn't think I'd ever see one over there.  Of course, it came from a non-drummer so go figure.   

Yeah, I'm going to do that too.  I'd like to hear how other bass players feel about cymbals.  Most of the bass players I've spoken to were mostly concerned with FEELING the kick and having the snare just a tad behind the beat.  But these were mostly in R/B, Soul type of settings. 

cc

I think not playing louder/harder because you're wearing earplugs is a good point.

Keep in mind this is one person's comments pertainig to his own likes/dislikes more than any kind of rule of thumb to follow. I work with a lot of different bass players on a regular basis, and they all have their preferred places on stage and what they like sound wise.

As far as following, every musician on stage needs to feeling a groove; following the overall feel and sound. A bass player who ignores the Kick drum and follows the HiHat? That would be like me saying that I listen to the Rhythm Guitar player to lock my Kick drum patterns to, and ignore what the Bass player is doing.

In regards to the heart of the post, it's nice to see that musicians are being real musicians ... showing interest in the sound that is coming from the instrument. And not just their sound, but the sound around them and from fellow musicians.

I remember reading years ago how picky guitarist Pat Metheny was about the drummer's Ride cymbal. He wanted the sound to blend and compliment his guitar sound.

And then there are guitarists like Robert Fripp who despise cymbals because they perceive them as stealing all their accents.

What I expected less from the bassist's post was the "request" for bigger cymbals.
I'm not buying many more cymbals during my lifetime, but I'm pretty sure I won't be getting crashes 16" or smaller again. The post gives me a bit of a reassurance on that.

cmon chris,

when is ANYTHING on a mere music oriented internet forum gonna be enlightening for you?  haha...

but yea, eye contact is unbelievably important.  especially when the bandleader has no idea what he/she is doing.

In my defence, I should say over the years I've put a lot of effort into asking other people what they think about drums, cymbals and the way I play them.
Certainly with regards to recording, I would still be sitting at first base had I not pestered people more experienced than I for advice and tips on what gear to use and for honest feedback on the gear I was using (and the way I played it).
The linked to comments from the bass player had a little touch of 'don't annoy me' about them, but his comments about musical choices were worth taking on board.

Good input from everyone and to me it's all insightful - but that's because I'm such a novice.  So Chris, keep in mind that you have probably forgotten a lot more than many of us know about these topics.  After sharing with my most respected bass player, here's what he had to say...

>>> Some bassists lock in with the kick drum, but in my opinion if you do that, you'll wind up behind the beat. <<< ...Huh   Don't lock with the kick drum?  Ok let's call Huey Lewis and tell him to burn all his recordings ... especially "Heart of Rock and Roll"

>>> I rely on the HiHat and Ride cymbal to lock in with you guys <<< ...Hey I love the hat ... but to lock it up baby ... give me a phat snare on the back edge ... rock solid kick with some holes and don't rush the tom fills and ... we've got it groovin ...

 ... I'm fine being on the left to get a clear shot of the kick and toms.   I guess I'm less concerned with what side of the drummer I'm on and ... more concerned with what side of the beat we're both on !!!!!!

Interesting stuff ... thanks for shaking it loose

Just say when!

I think the real problem lies in the fact Louis is in Ok and I'm in Oz, making the BBQ more difficult to organise.

Well, someone directed me to this. I'm the bassist that wrote the article.

Just wanna clarify.

First, it is only my humble opinion, as wrong or as right as it may be. I have done nothing worthwhile for anything I write to be considered Biblical.

I didn't mean to express that as a bassist that I do not lock with the kick drum. If I didn't I wouldn't have any gigs. What I meant is that I use the hi-hat to anticipate where the kick drum will come. If I were to wait until I actually heard the kick drum to play my note, I could be milliseconds late and that will affect the tightness of the band. So when I meant lock in with the hi-hat, I meant it on a mental level, not necessarily a musical level.
If I played with a drummer for years, I can anticipate where his foot and snare will come. It's alot more subconscious then. But, I play plenty of sub gigs and sometimes with a drummer that I never played with before and songs that I am performing for the first time. I listen to the hihat to get an idea of their style. Do they rush the beat? How much do they swing? What's the general tempo of the tune? Stuff like that. Other bassists may do something else, and that's cool. But many working bassists know to listen to the hihat.

As far as your crash, place it where you want if you see me on the gig. I wear earplugs nowadays.

As far as brightness of hihats or rides, it's just my opinion. Songwriters, soundmen, recording engineers, guitarists, other bassists, etc. will have theirs. Just stating what works for me.

I also like to stand on the hihat side, because it's easier for me to lay a nasty fart on you guys. Hope you brought a fan to the gig.

Anyway, as a bassist, it's good to hear feedback from drummers. It's all about collaboration anyway.

Peace,
Jong

That I definitely agree with, but too often it's the bandleader or venue that screws it up. Or the bass player.


Quit yer cryin' and count!

I think it's difficult to make such generalized statements like that with any real accuracy. Perhaps of the drummers you've personally worked with you could say "don't have a clue". FYI ... just because I don't go telling a bassist I'm working with what I think of his/her sound or give unsolicited suggestions ... that doesn't automatically constitute my having no knowledge of the bass or bass gear. I typically trust the musicians I'm working with and figure they are using their ears, choosing the sound(s) that best fits the music and how they want to express themselves in that moment. If something isn't working, we talk, but as a fellow band member, I don't try to get the other musicians to play the song they way I think it should be played or I hear it.

If you are the producer or it's your band, meaning you are writing the checks, that's obviously a different story. But that's not what is being discussed here.

Heh, I use that line when things get hairy.  "I'm just the drummer," works pretty well in a tight spot, especially if the band never listens to you anyway and then looks to you for a tough decision. 

I say, "Point me in a direction, I'll do what I can to get us where you want to go, but don't complain to me if you don't like what we arrive at."

 

Did somebody say  BBQ?

When and where do I show up?