Check out the Christmas CD, "It's For You He Came", featuring Bart Elliott on drums and percussion, available in the Drummer Cafe Store.

NEW PREMIUM RESOURCE

Frank Briggs has provided yet another play-along for our Premium Resource subscribers. "Potato" is an intermediate level play-along track from Mike Keneally's CD, Sluggo!

Subscribers can download audio tracks (with and without drums as well as solo drums) plus a PDF drum transcription and recording session notes.



Drummer Cafe Community Forum
December 02, 2008, 06:18 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Christmas CD featuring Bart on drums & percussion.
 
   Home   Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Is the value of Live Music in your area on the rise, stagnant or declining?  (Read 990 times)
1 Member and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
lopan
supporter
Copper Member

Online Online

Posts: 88


'82 TAMA Superstar X-TRAS + Roland V-Drums


WWW
« on: February 18, 2008, 02:40 PM »

I started playing out again after a 10 year layoff, and I'm disappointed to see that the pay scale for bands hasn't changed much. I will also say, that I didn't get back into playing music for the money, I'm doing it because I enjoy playing, but it would be nice if the pay could halfway keep up with the cost of my equipment? I wonder if anyone playing bars and clubs could make a living as a musician these days? I guess I'll hold on to my day job a while longer. Wink
Logged

Chip71
Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 2610



« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2008, 03:04 PM »

I'm willing to bet the pay musicians get now are based on the area you live. In my area of the US the pay hasn't changed much playing in bars. The pay for original bands are bad too. Depends on the bar, the crowd you draw, and if the drinking crowd is still around. I know with the change to many drinking/driving laws that hasn't helped either. I'm not thrilled with what's happened on the music scene. Only a few bands are making money, the rest are just treading water.  Undecided 
Logged

"When you quit learning you start dieing"-My Grandfather
New York Frank
supporter
Platinum Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1697



« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2008, 03:38 PM »

We have a very small number of *party bands* making good dollars - all the rest of the bar bands make very, very little.

In my area - the pay is Decreasing, and the availability of gigs is - decreasing.

When I was growing up near L.I., NY and hitting bars with bands often,
every night at every venue - the place was packed.  The bands then - I'm talking about the 70's and 80's - were making roughly Twice what bar bands make Today in my region north of there.

Logged
Chris Whitten
Honorary Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 5901


« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2008, 03:41 PM »

From my experience and talking to peers, the pay at the upper end of the industry hasn't changed much in ten years either.
I don't know if it's a factor of age (I don't know many 20 something's in the industry) or everyone is tightening their belts. I suspect the latter, but could be proved wrong.
But in my experience, which involves traveling around the world and talking to people in the industry around the world, it seems clear the music biz has declined in the last ten years (a slow decline over twenty years actually).

Logged

JeffK
Copper Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 46


WWW
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2008, 04:06 PM »

In the Cincinnati, OH area I make around 75/100.00 for a full night of music. Take into consideration that the band I work with has seven players and we pay to have sound and lights brought into the club. The sound companies we use run between 225/275 per night. I've actually considered selling my drums and buying sound equipment after some shows when I see how much they make for not much work. I have to remind myself that I'm not here for the money...although as someone else pointed out, it is nice to be able to afford equipment repairs and replacements.

Our band has our own PA system and light show, but no one is really interested in bringing it to the gig and setting up then having to tear it down at the end of the night. I would be happy to help if we were putting another 450/550 into our own hands. I keep pushing to drop the three horn players and play as a four piece, now we're talking some good money!

We get the occassional corporate gig/wedding/party and make a bit more.

There are two bands in this area that get about 3300.00 a show, but they charge a $10.00 cover fee at the clubs and I think that's a bit much to se a local cover band. Obviously there are those that don't agree.
Logged
Paicey
Platinum Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1552


I love the Drummer Cafe!


« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2008, 06:57 PM »

Club scene here is the same ol same ol, not real great. Pay scale hasnt changed in a decade!. To depressing to talk about Cry.
Logged
Chip71
Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 2610



« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2008, 07:28 PM »

Wow, the Cincinnati area bars pay better money than many places I've seen. The musician pay is about $100 per man for a private gig. Bars are even less....  Tongue
My son-in-law makes good money doing sound & lights at two schools. He doesn't even have to haul gear or have a truck. Everything is there for him....I've tried to have him at a couple outside gigs. "No way, that's too much work. I get paid more and do less in the schools." He's helped me haul my drums to the truck a few times. "Man, you've got a lot more gear than the school uses. The drummers there come to the stage with everything in two hands." I about died when I heard that. I'm thinking about going to the schools and see if they would need a drum tech. The school band directers don't know any more about drums than they did 40 years ago. Plus would probably pay better than the bars, less work too.  Roll Eyes
Logged

"When you quit learning you start dieing"-My Grandfather
Chris Whitten
Honorary Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 5901


« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2008, 07:31 PM »

Wow, the Cincinnati area bars pay better money than many places I've seen.

I was going to say that.
I think a few signed bands would be happy with $3k per show too.
Logged

lopan
supporter
Copper Member

Online Online

Posts: 88


'82 TAMA Superstar X-TRAS + Roland V-Drums


WWW
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2008, 07:54 PM »

I'm willing to bet the pay musicians get now are based on the area you live. In my area of the US the pay hasn't changed much playing in bars.

Before I quit playing I was living in Texas. I'm in Virginia now and from what the other guys in the band tell me, the pay scale hasn't changed much in the past few years. Friends back in Texas say it isn't much better there either.
Logged

lopan
supporter
Copper Member

Online Online

Posts: 88


'82 TAMA Superstar X-TRAS + Roland V-Drums


WWW
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2008, 08:13 PM »

The sound companies we use run between 225/275 per night. I've actually considered selling my drums and buying sound equipment after some shows when I see how much they make for not much work.

Our band has our own PA system and light show, but no one is really interested in bringing it to the gig and setting up then having to tear it down at the end of the night.

We have our own PA and Lights as well, but with the money we're (not) making, we really have to do it ourselves. Loading out at 3AM Sunday morning I was glad to be playing again, but yes, It would be nice not to have all that to move.
Logged

lopan
supporter
Copper Member

Online Online

Posts: 88


'82 TAMA Superstar X-TRAS + Roland V-Drums


WWW
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2008, 08:25 PM »

From my experience and talking to peers, the pay at the upper end of the industry hasn't changed much in ten years either.
I don't know if it's a factor of age (I don't know many 20 something's in the industry) or everyone is tightening their belts. I suspect the latter, but could be proved wrong.
But in my experience, which involves traveling around the world and talking to people in the industry around the world, it seems clear the music biz has declined in the last ten years (a slow decline over twenty years actually).


The industry has changed a lot in the past few years. Record companies used to have more control over who could put out an album, CD, etc.. Now I see a lot of independent artists producing their own. Maybe there's too many musicians?  I also wonder sometimes if bar patrons really care if they listen to a live band or a juke box? The money seems to say they don't.
 
Logged

Chris Whitten
Honorary Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 5901


« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2008, 08:31 PM »

Yes, I think changes in bar culture have had an impact on musicians.
Bar owners make more money on food service than they do putting on live music.
Men don't just drink anymore. Couples and families go out to eat and drink.
In my youth, television was a small box in the corner. These days major sports events are shown on big screen tv. People go out to watch sports in bars, rather than at home.
I was playing a regular local bar gig in 2007. You could hear people groan as the sound was turned down on the monday night game so we could start our set.  Undecided
Logged

Drum4JC (Todd)
Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1699


Psalm 150


WWW
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2008, 11:16 PM »

Yes, I think changes in bar culture have had an impact on musicians.
Bar owners make more money on food service than they do putting on live music.
Men don't just drink anymore. Couples and families go out to eat and drink.
In my youth, television was a small box in the corner. These days major sports events are shown on big screen tv. People go out to watch sports in bars, rather than at home.
I was playing a regular local bar gig in 2007. You could hear people groan as the sound was turned down on the monday night game so we could start our set.  Undecided

I think you've hit the nail on the head on that one. More money in food than music.  People drink less due to stiffer drinking and driving laws.  People want to watch sports and socialize rather than hear music. 

All the above, plus Lopan's comment about loading out at 3AM makes me glad I just play at Church every Sunday.  Great gig.  No hassle. 
Logged

Coming in 2008:  The Delta-3 Snare Drum by Fusion Drums.  www.fusiondrums.com.  Look for updates here at the Drummer Cafe!
HDT
supporter
Silver Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 409

Rock stars... is there anything they don't know?


« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2008, 10:19 AM »

I'm happy to be playing again after being out of the game for so long, but I will say that here in southwest Missouri, at least, local live music is just scraping by.  I've talked with seasoned pros around here (in some of the best bands in the area) who say that they barely make enough right now to stay afloat.  It's a cycle that this region goes through every few years.  The local scene will get hot, the clubs are packed and you can feel the vibe around town.  eventually a couple of bands will last long enough to make a name for themselves in the region, and maybe even land a recording contract or a tour or two with a big headliner.  Then things begin to cool off and before you know it, you are looking around wondering... what happened?  So we are in one of those slumps right now, it appears, and pay isn't nearly what it should be.  But this too shall pass.  I'm going to ride the cycle out until things get hopping again, and enjoy it for all it's worth. 
Don't quit your day job.   
Logged

"We're going bowling... if we don't come back, avenge our deaths."
Homer Simpson
JeffK
Copper Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 46


WWW
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2008, 02:56 PM »

WOW!

From reading some of these post I guess I should count my blessings. I guess I always thought that the pay was pretty poor around here, but I guess it's not so bad.

I've had friends ask me how much I make on a weekend for playing and when I tell them around $200.00 they usually answer with, Is that all? They always remind me of the costs of being in a band, like band practice, gas to get to and from the gig, wear and tear on equipment and time spent away from family. It almost makes me feel guilty when it's put in those terms, but obviously I do it because I love it and need to do it as opposed to really making any huge income from it. Normal people probably don't understand that logic and from a business standpoint it doesn't make much sense.

When I played in an all original band I don't think I ever got paid a dime from a gig. Most of the clubs in town require you to use their sound and lighting system and sound person and charge accordingly. That usually takes the majority of the money.
It's the old We'll pay you $200.00 but it will cost you $250.00 for sound and lights.

My band has been on the scene for a few years and we've done some high profile gigs, so we can ask for a bit more for shows. New bands i the area get between 3/400.00 and the established bands usually 5/600.00, we are fortunate to get in the 675.00/700.00 range for local gigs.
Logged
Chris Whitten
Honorary Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 5901


« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2008, 04:23 PM »

What I'm not quite understanding is the line between wanting to make money (semi-pro) and needing to make money (pro).
What other hobbies pay you to cover expenses or a little more?

I guess if I was working a day job Monday to Friday and earning $200 to do what I love at the weekend I'd be over the moon. As I am a professional and only earn money when I play, $200 for two days work wouldn't pay my bills, especially as it would likely be $200 over seven days (the weekends being the most likely paying days in a smaller market).
So, if drumming is your second job or hobby, $100 per gig is GREAT IMHO. If you have to earn a living just from music, $100 per gig is terrible.  Embarrassed
Logged

lopan
supporter
Copper Member

Online Online

Posts: 88


'82 TAMA Superstar X-TRAS + Roland V-Drums


WWW
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2008, 08:41 PM »

What I'm not quite understanding is the line between wanting to make money (semi-pro) and needing to make money (pro).
What other hobbies pay you to cover expenses or a little more?
I started playing in clubs when I was 16 (I joined the Musicians Union as well). Music from that time through college was my income. I didn't chase the dream hard enough to make it as a pro, and music became a part-time job and later, yes a hobby. Even if my playing is just a hobby, being paid to do so is gratifying. There's more to it that pushes me to play these days, but it's to hard to explain.
Logged

drumnut1
Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 2393


It is OK to be a little Nutz!!!


WWW
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2008, 09:00 PM »

This is a subject that I has bothered me for years.  In the late 70's we were charging $300 a night for the band.  I guess this may very depending on location?
Anyway, what bothers me is that here we are, 30 years later and clubs still try to get entertainment as cheap as possible and get away with it.  As long as there are bands willing to play for nothing, it is hard for bands to get anymore.

  I ain't doing it for free anymore unless it is for a good cause like the Concert I am putting together with 4 bands in September for a Cancer Charity Fund Raiser. This is really worth all the trouble. There is a big Street Rod Convention going on at the same time. It will be marketed through TV, Radio, News Paper and on the Internet and it is being done at a very nice Amphitheater at a large park.  Great cause, Great exposure.  That makes Free worth it. This type stuff helps to market you and gets your rate up in the future.
Some of the biggest clubs here still want to try to get away with paying the band, $200 a night and use our equipment.  If you don't take it some desperate band will, so I basically say that they can have it.  If the club has their own PA and lights, anything less than $100 a piece ain't worth it.  If I have to haul and set up my own PA and lights it will take $150 more. This is called work. For a 3 man band, that is $450 a night. My guitar player has a steady house band gig with a country band, one night a week.  He walks in with his guitar and plugs it in and make $80 a night.
That is worth it.  He doesn't have to even carry his amp. Just plug in and play.
 Each gig is different. I would charge more than that for a Reunion or Wedding.
A wedding or party for a close friend might be different.
  I am almost 47 years old with a good job and family.  I am not going to wear myself out playing everywhere for nothing.  I would rather play a few quality gigs than a bunch of gigs for hardly nothing.
                                  Nutty

Logged

"You are only as good as the people you surround yourself with'. "I love The Cafe. "If there is music today, it is a great day".
"Tama Star Classics and Paiste cymbals for ever" !!!
Chris Whitten
Honorary Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 5901


« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2008, 01:20 AM »


  I am almost 47 years old with a good job and family.  I am not going to wear myself out playing everywhere for nothing.  

That's my point.
Anyone who was in a weekend softball team wouldn't seek to be paid.
I think the slight flaw in my point is the money a bar owner might make from your entertainment. I'll concede that.
But everyone has their price.
I did a bar gig for $50 every Monday because I needed to play more than anything else.

Quote
I would rather play a few quality gigs than a bunch of gigs for hardly nothing.
                                  Nutty

I agree, but sometimes playing good music is more fun that playing average music and making more money.
Each musician makes their own choice.
Logged

drumnut1
Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 2393


It is OK to be a little Nutz!!!


WWW
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2008, 07:41 AM »

That's my point.
Anyone who was in a weekend softball team wouldn't seek to be paid.
I think the slight flaw in my point is the money a bar owner might make from your entertainment. I'll concede that.
But everyone has their price.
I did a bar gig for $50 every Monday because I needed to play more than anything else.

I agree, but sometimes playing good music is more fun that playing average music and making more money.
Each musician makes their own choice.
Chris,
My band has averaged 2 practices a week since last summer. We all play music with other people too. I was doing three bands for awhile and Church and practicing on my own. It was a big strain on my family. I cut it down to the best band and church and practicing on my own.  I am behind a drum kit enough for my taste. I have heard pro level bands at Rupp Arena which seats 24,000 people that couldn't play as well in some cases as this band.  Now, who knows, maybe they were all standing up there drunk or high, or maybe they hired some sound person that just wanted to ruin their sound?  But they sounded like crap.
Just because a band plays all the time doesn't make them great. At an open mic gig,
 I had a band ask me if I wanted to try out for them. They had seen me play and they had fired a drummer that was a friend of mine.  They were playing gigs all over town so I asked them when they practiced. They told me they knew almost 500 songs and didn't need to practice.  I watched them play three songs, and they asked me what I thought.  I told them that I could tell they didn't rehearse together and I wasn't interested.
I have a bunch of respect for Pro level musicians.  I am friends with a few of them that live here and are either doing it now or got out of it because of burn out.  I have no desire to go on a tour bus and make the same kind of money that they were talking about and be away from my family. Not worth it. We have to all make choices for ourselves.
 
I think the truth about making the money is that you have to walk before you can run.
The guitar player that I work with at church has been a pro level musician all his life.  That is what he does, with a few other good investments he has made.  His band has been together for over 30 years and is able to demand more money than most, locally. He also plays with two other bands that are newer but are loaded with experience.  They will be doing the Charity Fund Raiser for Cancer Concert that I am putting together. In organizing an event like this, I have made invaluable contacts in the best clubs and marketing contacts in the area.
Doing the right gigs for exposure purposes and getting your name out there with the least amount of work is what I am all about. Meeting the right people is everything. Not playing gigs 5 out of 7 nights a week. If someone wants to do this for a living and make it their only job, at the rate of pay locally, this is what they have to do to survive until they establish themselves as a big ticket. Not my game Wink. If I was single, I might see things differently Cool.


Logged

"You are only as good as the people you surround yourself with'. "I love The Cafe. "If there is music today, it is a great day".
"Tama Star Classics and Paiste cymbals for ever" !!!
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.7 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.204 seconds with 20 queries.

You support this site when you purchase from Musician's Friend through the Drummer Cafe!
Copyright ©2001 - 2008 Drummer Cafe. All rights reserved.
developed by Bart Elliott | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Site Map