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Author Topic: Ambidexterity and Dominance?  (Read 1246 times)
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talldrummerboy5555
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« on: February 19, 2008, 10:19 PM »

I there any true way to gave the same amount of dominance to each hand?
And if so how would one accomplish this sense of complete ambidexterity?
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boomka
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2008, 10:21 AM »

I've been thinking/researching a lot on this subject lately. In part for my own interest, but also because I have a student who is a converted left-hander who seems to have the ability to do some things really well with either hand. As such, I've been working on ways to utilise his abilities and teach for them.

No one seems to have devised a foolproof system to inculcate ambidexterity, yet. Some people seem more capable of developing ambidexterity than others. And it appears that dominance in the appendages is - while I hesitate to say "hardwired" - set at very early stages of brain development - i.e. in the womb. So much so, that it has been hypothesized by at least one researcher that ambidextrous people are actually "brain damaged" in a certain way! 

However, it is possible to improve the motor-function in your weak hand. Many, many people considered "ambidextrous" are actually converted left-handers who were forced either by social custom or ergonomics (more stuff is made for righties) to gain control of their weaker limbs. In their brains, however, they still look like lefties. In theory, then we should be able to artificially repeat their process and gain the same result, right?


In drumming, this problem is usually tackled with exercises dedicated to the weak side such as repetitive use of the weak side in isolation, "leading" with the weak side or changing the orthodox drum set-up to force the use of the weak hand - so-called "open-handed" playing. Additionally, you can do all the non-drumming tasks you can manage with your strong side with your weak one. Much of our strong side dexterity is developed in everyday practices like opening doors, eating food, brushing teeth, carrying items, doing up buttons and zippers, etc.

So, the short answer to your question is: sort of... Wink Many drummers have achieved a great level of ambidexterity through practice. More and more, modern drumming techniques (like double bass drum pedals) force us to use our non-dominant limbs. Give it shot, see where you get.

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Chip71
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2008, 12:27 PM »

I have a grandson who is left handed. He does everything left handed. But he races motocross, therefore uses both hands for control of the bike. He just started taking guitar lessons. The instructer wanted to sell him a left hand guitar. But he couldn't learn good fingering control with it. So now he has two normal right hand guitars and is progressing just fine. Both an acoustic & electric guitars. I'm very curious what he will do if I teach him to play drums. His music teacher in his school tried to teach him right handed tactics on the snare. He didn't consider the fact that the kid is left handed. So that may be another door to open....He may mess up my setup, but I'm going to try to teach him drums. Should be very interesting.   Undecided
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2008, 12:44 PM »

He didn't consider the fact that the kid is left handed. So that may be another door to open....He may mess up my setup, but I'm going to try to teach him drums. Should be very interesting. 

I am left handed but play a right hand kit.  I believe a left handed person may be at a disadvantage initially when learning to play a right hand drum kit but in the long run it will be an advantage. 
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2008, 03:03 AM »

Bart has a lesson on this - check it out.  Also, there have been a number of discussions so a search will bring up some good information.
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Apollo
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« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2008, 03:12 PM »

I second the above poster, I read Bart's lesson on this and it was a great help.

What I did to improve my off hand was start doing things that I would usually do with my right hand with my left for a fortnight or so (with the exception of shaving, for obvious reasons) as Bart wrote. I also, however, tried playing some simple drum beats open handed, slowly at first, and then building it up. I also have an excercise that I like to do you warm both hands up.

Play a double stroke roll, but play it with triplet accents.

For example, R r l L r r R r l L r r

Hope this is of some help Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2008, 12:23 PM »

I am also left-handed, but I play a right-handed drumset. 

The drummers above me already covered the exercises that you would use to strengthen your weaker hand.

I don't know if I can explain why I don't play a left handed drumset.  They simply don't feel right to me.  I've always played right handed, probably because that's how I was taught from the beginning.  I have started to slowly work on open handed exercises, after watching Dom Famularo's videos over at vic firth's website.  My hands have become "conditioned" to playing back beats in the left, and keeping time with the right. 

It confounded my instructor when he saw me writing left handed.   
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2008, 10:09 AM »

I'm working with Jim Chapin's book "Advanced Techniques For the Modern Drummer" and I find that's really helping me get more control over my left hand. 

Also, Jo Jo Meyer's video is a big help because it breaks down the mechanics of what's happening with different strokes.  Some things I do automatically with my right hand, I can't get together with my left.  By breaking down the mechanics and practicing with exaggerated motion, I'm starting to get more control over the left hand.

Learning to play a fretted instrument helps develop left hand awareness.

My only weirdness is forcing myself to use my left hand for my computer mouse.
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dea
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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2008, 07:09 PM »

Try setting up your kit in an ambi configuration.  The ambi setup will naturally align your mind to more naturally balance the left and right limbs.  You don't have to play open to play an ambi kit setup.  I still play right hand ride/hat, but because of the ambi setup, I incorporate left hand hat and right hand snare into my playing in a fluid way and *when needed*.  Think about it... 50% of your limbs are on the left, and 50% are on the right.  Why would you not setup your kit to support your natural body alignment.  To do otherwise doesn't make sense to me...of course it did this for the first 10years of my life, but that was because of my own ignorance combined with our natural human tendencies to just accept what we know.
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boomka
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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2008, 08:02 AM »

Quote
To do otherwise doesn't make sense to me...of course it did this for the first 10years of my life, but that was because of my own ignorance combined with our natural human tendencies to just accept what we know.

That and the availability/cost of remote hihat stands. Until manufacturers are willing to supply remote hihat stands with kits designed for beginners, crossing-over or open-handed playing are going to be the norm.

Quote
he ambi setup will naturally align your mind to more naturally balance the left and right limbs.

I'm not sure I agree with this. The problem with a crossed-over set-up has little to do with an "unbalanced" mind, but with the physical limitations of our bodies' design and of bone and musculature operating in conditions of gravity, etc.  Moving my right hand from a position extended straight out to the right to one extended as far as it will reach to the left does not radically change the "balance" or "alignment" of my mind.
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dea
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« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2008, 02:35 PM »

Yes it does.  Everything around you and everything you do aligns your mind in some way and to some degree.  That is a natural trait of your brain to adjust and adapt to it's surroundings.  It will continously do so for as long as you live, and whether you like it or not.  If this wasn't the case, we would be an extinct species.
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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2008, 03:42 AM »

By breaking down the mechanics and practicing with exaggerated motion, I'm starting to get more control over the left hand.
Proprioception. This is round-about, so please bear with me.

a drummer colleague and I were just today, comparing notes on both of us having had recent surgeries on our legs. I'm still in physiotherapy from mine. My physiotherapist talks a lot about proprioception and how the brain "remembers" a sensation via a movement (macro right down to micro), be it an entire limb, a single muscle, a foot touching the ground: anything, really. Anytime there is a disruption in the system, especially when a nerve is 'distressed' somehow, the memory can break down. This needs to be re-written through consistent repetition of exercises design to accustomise the brain (and the limb) to new sensations.

The brain remembers the movements and what they should look like. When the messages coming back don't match what the brain is anticipating, all hell can break loose. The re-training eventually takes care of the distress and things renormalize.

Here's the "round-about": you can re-write these memories too. the approach that I understand, is to focus on making new sensations "normal" for your weak-hand. Making it feel like your strong hand really helps, and this does require a lot of concentrative practice.

I've been working on playing a 1-bar clave pattern with my left foot while playing a kick/hat/snare groove with my right side, my left hand plays a tumbao on a conga - By really paying attention to how everything fits and works together from a kinetic perspective: I would go right down to analyzing relating motions, to understand how they go together and what each feels like when the other does what it is doing. After awhile, it begins to feel normal and comfortable, and more capable.
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boomka
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« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2008, 01:46 PM »

Yes it does.  Everything around you and everything you do aligns your mind in some way and to some degree.  That is a natural trait of your brain to adjust and adapt to it's surroundings.  It will continously do so for as long as you live, and whether you like it or not.  If this wasn't the case, we would be an extinct species.

There is a world of difference between the notion that one's brain adapts/learns and the notion that playing an "ambi" kit is going to more "naturally" align your brain. Of course our brains adapt, of course different neurons will be firing when one is crossing over vs. playing open-handed, but these changes are not "radical",  as I said. There is nothing more "natural" to the brain about one position or the other. This is most certainly because the brain can adapt to/learn and repeat a variety of body positions. That's just the thing: our brains can "normalise" even the most bizarrely inefficient, or even painful, movements. My quibble was with your inference that our brains are inherently (naturally was your word) designed to prefer an "ambidextrous" set-up of the drumset.

Perhaps I misunderstood you.
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dea
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« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2008, 03:01 PM »

What I would like to see is the following experiment.

1. Setup a simple ambi kit as well as a traditional kit.
2. Now acquire a ton of kids of varying ages, and have not played the kit before.
3. Have each kid bang away on each configuration for some pre-determined time.
4. Ask them which setup they prefer.

I'm betting they would select the ambi kit.  What I would like to hear is why?  I bet the majority would say it's more natural.  Why? Because as soon a they are born, the brain is naturally aligned to make use of this preconfigured 50/50 limb distribution.
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dea
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« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2008, 03:52 PM »

What I would like to see is the following experiment.

1. Setup a simple ambi kit as well as a traditional kit.
2. Now acquire a ton of kids of varying ages, and have not played the kit before.
3. Have each kid bang away on each configuration for some pre-determined time.
4. Ask them which setup they prefer.

I'm betting they would select the ambi kit.  What I would like to hear is why?  I bet the majority would say it's more natural.  Why? Because as soon a they are born, the brain is naturally aligned to make use of this preconfigured 50/50 limb distribution.

More test requirements to level the playing field:

* Each kid must not have played a drumkit.
* Half of the kids should start on the ambi kit, the other half on the standard kit.


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boomka
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« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2008, 04:57 AM »

MASSIVE NERD ALERT! YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!  Kiss  Grin

I'm sorry, DEA, I'm not trying to slam you here, but that test would prove very little. Where you and I  are are differing is on the brain's ability to generate movements from the limbs no matter where they are in space. I'm saying that our brain is not picky and will flap my right wrist up and down (or side to side depending on the attitude of my forearm) the same way whether it is in front of me, to my right, behind me, at knee level, above my head or otherwise.  The signaling process from the motor control centres of the brain to the wrist are the same no matter where that wrist is in space. This has been tested using MRI and other forms of brain observation. Where difficulties present themselves with crossed-arm playing is when the limitations of physical space and the construction of our bodies prevent certain tasks being performed easily. That said, our brains are highly adaptive and will normalise and repeat even highly inefficient movements.

I agree, the kids may pick the "ambidextrous" kit, but that wouldn't prove that it is more natural to our brains. It would simply prove that more kids pick "ambidextrous" kits. The reasons would still be up in the air. I put quotes around "ambidextrous"  because our brains are not ambidextrous and Dominance is actually set quite early in the fetal development in the womb. Limb Dominance is not a "learned" behaviour as we usually understand that. Our brains are actually wired to be Right Handed or Left Handed. Some researchers have gone as far as to suggest that truly ambidextrous people are actually "brain damaged", or in the very least highly abnormal in their brain development. Most "ambidextrous" people are converted Left Handers who have developed a high functionality in their right hands - or vice versa, but the numbers suggest that they are far more often lefties. Moreover, the old idea that the left-brain controlled the right side limbs and the right brain the left side limbs has been blown apart by more recent research that shows that physical movements on both sides of the body involve a complex use of many functions in the brain, on both sides of the corpus collossum.

What I'm saying is that IF kids picked the ambidextrous kit, they wouldn't pick the kit because their brains are aligned 50/50 (because they aren't) but because their bodies are aligned 50/50 in space making it more difficult to execute certain physical motions - i.e. crossing the hands over top of one another. Though, in fact, that actually isn't a huge problem in and of itself - it's just that in the physical confines of a drumset and with bouncing levers (sticks) flying around, things get in the way of each other. Simply crossing your arms and flapping your wrists is no different than flapping them uncrossed.

There has been a lot of discussion around here (including one of Bart's 5-minute Lessons) about reconfiguring our hihat placement so that our hands are not crossing.  This small adjustment to the traditional kit can alleviate virtually all of the problems of crossing over. In many ways it's a "better" position for playing because as Bart points out, your pop music "business district", as I call it, of Hats, Snare, 1st Tom, Crash Cymbal are all within a small movement of the forearm and/or shoulder.

Try this: set up a ride cymbal on both right and left sides. The right one in the usual place and the left one in between the hats and the tom on a traditional kit. I'll bet you can play ANYTHING you can play on the right ride cymbal with your right hand on the left ride cymbal with your right hand. Any difficulties will not result from the brain being confused by what side your hand is on (believe me, the same neurons are firing), but by the addition of a new muscle movement in the form of the shoulder changing position and perhaps a slight change in the angle of attack for the right hand. Note these are physical problems. The basic wrist and hand technique and the signals saying play "x" will still operate the same from the brain's point of view. Once the new shoulder/arm position is adapted to, it will be no different than playing the ride on the other side.

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« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2008, 08:26 PM »

Isolate, isolate, isolate. Try "eight on a hand" or some of the other traditional snare exercises, but focus on just playing them with your left hand. Go slowly and focus on technique and articulation. With enough sweat equity your left hand should begin approaching what comes more naturally with your right.
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« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2008, 08:53 AM »

I play so righty it's pathetic.  Roll Eyes

Ok I'm of the thought now; my left side does these things and my right side does these things- there is no middle ground!  LOL

Bad I know but the left is pretty much all the off beats except for the the times I ride straight 1/8ths.  Here I have ok independence, but that's it.

I used to lead with my left more but I keep looking for ways to go back to rh lead, or I will cheat and lead with an unaccented right or play the left with (initially-together) with the right for passages beginning on the down beat.

I have been toying with idea of going back thru all my beginner rock books and working on syncopation with the left hand ride and right hand comping.  I'm sure it would benefit my playing and open up the rest of the kit.  But then that leads to my style which is devoid of alot of tom playing in the grooves (derived probably because of my lack of left hand lead development). 

So do I stink?  (Don't answer that!)  Do I stay on the straight and narrow path or go for a more adventurous approach?  Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!  The left side scares me!   Cheesy

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« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2008, 10:45 AM »

Give yourself opportunity, then decide what to do with it, don't be afraid that opportunity is going to make a decision for you.

That is to say, that if you learn better left hand control, that doesn't mean your going to lose your style, because you'll still have a choice in the matter. If anything your style can only develop further as you learn, because surely as you learn, you will expand on the ideas presented to you. And these extrapolations and expansions will be YOURS, your own creations and part of YOUR own style.
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« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2008, 12:27 PM »

yeah, but it boils down to do I want to waste practice time on something I can play perfectly well right handed?
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