DRUMMER CAFE

May seem like an odd topic, but I'm wondering when you all use double strokes (either with fills, patterns or accented moments) as opposed to just singles.

I find that the only time I'm using doubles is on ride or hat patterns (with the right hand) or in rare moments on the snare drum or hat (with my left hand). Maybe in some circumstances I'll use a one-time double on a certain tom with fills when the ergonomics make it more natural.

Anyone else? Is this a dumb and/or naiive question?

I think this is a great question.

I would have to say that I use a lot of double strokes; grooves, fills, etc. It is my belief that almost everything we play is made up of singles, doubles and unisons (flat flams). Every rudiment can be broken down into some form of single or double. The exception would be a triple stroke ... whether in rudiment or in something like an up-tempo jazz ride pattern. So I guess I would have to include triples.

One thing is certain ... as soon as you play something other than single strokes ... the power and intensity diminishes slightly ... especially at fast tempos. I've worked very hard to build my double stroke chops, using the wrist and fingers to pull out the second stroke of the double ... and not allow it to free bounce. This has been extremely beneficial when it comes to using the doubles on toms ... or any surface that does not naturally foster a "great" rebound on it's own.

But with all of this, there is a point where my stroke intensity pivots ... when performing at a very fast tempo. You can hear where the doubles are no longer have the same dynamic magnitude as the single strokes. It's just physically impossible to play doubles as loud as singles ... when working at neck breaking tempos.

In my opinion, it is this fact that brings many players to use singles more than doubles; especially those who perform at a high volume and fast tempo.

There's more power in a single stroke ... overall. Even though I can play my doubles in such a way that you can't tell if I'm actually doubles or singles ... I know that there is a break point. As tempos increase ... it quickly becomes more difficult to maintain this cohesive fluidity between the opposing strokes.

Now ... if we are talking about softer volumes ... you can throw this theory right out the window. The dilemma almost reverses itself in that I can play double strokes faster than singles ... when we are talking about fast tempos, but low volumes. There is a pivot point in this scenario as well ... but a very different one.

I think the key is to understand where these pivot points are in our playing ... so that we naturally know when to use what type of stroke. An example would be that I don't think about what strokes I need to use while I'm performing. I just play what I hear in my head ... and my body complies by doing what is necessary to achieve my musical goals. The problem comes in when the signal from my brain gets lost while in route to my hands and feet ... which happens more than I care to admit!    Practice, practice, practice.

I use doubles a LOT.  I'll diddle on the snare while going around the toms with my right hand.  I also use doubles a lot in fills by accenting the second note rather than the first.  In fact I'll often play the first note almost as a ghost note to change the feel of the fill.  And I use doubles a lot on the floor because I'm fat and I don't wanna have to turn that much

--
Rob

I think doubles are great.  In loud rock I don't use them as much.  But since I don't play loud rock too much anymore I use them whenever I want.

I'd say I use them in just about every tune I play in some form or another.  I mean why not right?  They really are easy once mastered (whatever that is)...the trick (like everything in this game) is I guess to use them tastefully.

Lately, where I would normally play a long roll type double, I'll multiple bounce.  I also have been doing diddles over odd groupings.  I wrote this pattern where I double paraddidle over a 7 at 114 bpm...it's sweet.
Also I use them like Pete and the Dwarf...I have been digging breaking them up or fattening up 1/4 and 1/8 note trips on the left with a double.  I came up with a tits sounding fill yesterday that was an 1/4 triplet pattern where I double the kick, right (floor)and then left (snare) at the same 114 bpm.

I love this forum because the Dwarf just reminded me of something- Bart you ought to post the other 3 inversions of the long roll/double.  Cool stuff man.  

CSW , what are broken Mozambique patterns ?

This is exactly the point I was trying to make.

We judge many Rock drummers wrongly (IMO), because the use mostly singles ... but there's a reason for the madness!  

Sorry I didn't post that; but glad you did.

If anyone is interested, I've got this stuff on my Hand Exercise sheets ... which are available on my website. Just go to the Lesson pages; download the PDF version.

That's an American slang for ClearSeaWater ... CSW! LOL

_{Just an acronym Mark; nothing more. He's trying to save his energy by not typing out your full username.}

Its alright Bart, I was'nt looking for a fight, I just took it as another piece of Net word shorcuts that I dont understand.

The term "lol" startled me at first as at the time I thought it ment "lots of love", and depending on who said it ment I was flattered or a little worried. I cant speak as Im a Brit and I cant even grasp the English language let alone spell it........

It is interesting how Americans(not all) view the British, must of us dont speak with "a plum in our mouths"(posh). My voice I suppose would be classed as cockney sounding, Michael Cain/Bob Hoskins like I suppose....im a commoner and proud of it (cant stand the class system, never agreed with it).

Anyway back to the points at hand, the " Mozambique" (refined by our great drumming example  "Mr all round drummer" Steve Gadd to the "NY" varient) is used as a creative basis for a good deal of my fills as it lends itself as a launch pad to fusiony 6/8 flurrys and odd groupings. If I play half of the sticking then it allows multiple options.....I can launch into a Funk feel or I can carry on a tad and create a full on Latin bonanza....it is very flexable.

I find the chopping up of this rhythm a very flexable  and creative tool.

The "Swiss Army Knife to an interesting fill"as it were....

4/4......(RL)rlrrLrLrrlrrlr

Bracket means both hands strike together....DONT FLAM

Just work out of Accents and Rebounds if you want to develop accenting ability like those described by djarrett. You can use the Moeller or modified Moeller method taught by Joe Morello to get that accent on the second stroke of the same hand.