Daniel33
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« on: March 09, 2008, 10:34 PM » |
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First post, hello everyone.
I have a 1940 Ludwig set which consists of a 28" Kick and a 14" Snare. just those two things, i have a satisfying hi hat from the 70's and a really terrible ride that i need to replace. I came into the bass and snare from my grandmother, who gave them to me a few years back. they belonged to my grandfather, who passed away before i was born. he bought them brand new in may of 1940. they have the original calf-skin heads on them. I play other instruments, but i have to say that i love playing drums the most (though i'm passable as a drummer, i could stand to be a whole lot better) in a live band. i feel like i 'm the one who gets to guide the energy. anyway...
i want to replace the drum heads (especially on the bass) and see what can be done to improve upon / resurrect the sound. i've tried putting a small blanket inside the bass but that only muffled and muddied it too much. another problem is the resonance - loud and bombastic as this bass drum is, it "rings". i have an old clamp-on mute that i use on the outer head, it helps a great deal, but not 100%. The snare is pretty much awesome, but resonates a great deal too. that isn't hard to control though, my concern lies with the bass drum.
i don't know much about drum physics per se, but i do have a good ear and know what i want and don't want out of it. so my questions are:
What can be reasonably expected out of drums like these? What should i be looking for in new drum heads (besides size)? What can i do to control / shape the sound?
thanks
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2008, 02:27 AM » |
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What can you expect? The drums could sound world class. It really depends on their condition - how well they've been maintained over the years. Ludwig drums, especially vintage ones tend to sound amazing. I would go with a thin snare side head (like Evans 300) on the snare drum. A single-ply coated head on top (like a Remo Ambassador). That's a good starting point. The bass drum head choices are many and various. Maybe others will chime in. I would suggest something mainstream and popular to start with. As to the sustain, it really isn't a crime to place a little gaffa tape and tissue on the snare batter. A couple of inches on tape, right on the edge between the head and the rim. Adjust to taste. You don't want to kill all the resonance. There are drum pillows made for bass drums - like the Evans EQ Pad. I would just experiment with rolled up towels and/or possibly pre-damped heads like the Evans EMAD.
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Daniel33
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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2008, 12:35 PM » |
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thanks! they do tend to turn heads when played, and they have been well taken care of. and will continue to be, as long as i know what i'm doing 
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chilledbongo
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2008, 01:41 PM » |
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google 'vintage drums' and you'll come up with all kinds of info
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diddle
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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2008, 03:33 PM » |
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Do you have to "special order" a 28" head?
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Chip71
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2008, 05:30 PM » |
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Do you have to "special order" a 28" head?
I would advise going to Remo and email them. They should be able to answer all your questions. Look on their site and see if they even make a head that big. I know, as an old drummer, I would try my best to get back the original sound of those drums. I bet they sound great when tuned right. The reason I say Remo is because they have been around a long time. Even contact Ludwig and see what they would suggest. After all, they invented those drums. I'm sure they would be interested as a sponsor if you play out with them. Great PR on a set that old. 
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TeReKeTe
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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2008, 10:23 PM » |
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i'm sure i'm not the only one who's heart flutters knowing you've got a ludwig kit from the 40s. provided the shells are round and not cracked, you should be golden. 28" head s aren't impossible to come by at all.
coated ambassadors all around, a small blanket in the kick, and as Chris Whitten said, a nice light snare head-- you might want to replace the snares as well.
enjoy it! and save the orig heads-- calfskin is outrageously expensive these days.
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eardrum
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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2008, 11:48 PM » |
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Good ideas so far. In addition I would check the shells to make sure they are still round and see if there are any problems with the bearing edges. The bearing edges can be redone if needed, the round issue may be tougher. If it's been well cared for as you say, you might be good to go but you should check just in case.
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Daniel33
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« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2008, 01:51 PM » |
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overwhelming response - thanks everyone. well, i've found that 28" drum heads are quite easy to come by and average about $34 - $65 a head. Remo and Evans seem to have the most diversity of heads in that size. The drum itself, for those who are curious, looks good. not great, but good. the paint is a bit cracked here and there which i suppose is to be expected for an old wooden circle expanding and contracting over the years with seasonal temperature change (it was stored in my grandmothers attic for about 50 years of it's life). There is a patched square hole on the bottom of the drum where there used to be a light inside of the drum. I'm not thrilled about that, but it seems to have zero effect on the drum aside from aesthetic appeal, and like i said it's on the bottom. i guess i could take a picture, but i sold my camera... i'll put up a link to a photograph... http://danielh33.googlepages.com/0312081401.jpgi apologize for the poor quality photograph. There is a painting of the ocean at night on the front drum head.
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diddle
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« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2008, 02:01 PM » |
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Some of those old pictures from the early 20th century look like they use HUGE bass drums... were those 26 or 28 inch drums from the bee bop days?
I forgot how large those concert bass brums are typically... seems like they were larger than 28... the kind you use your knee as a "dynamic muffler" for playing concert/orchestra music.
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Chip71
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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2008, 03:10 PM » |
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From my old tired eyes it looks like the bass drum is more yellow on the band around the drum than the snare is. The snare band looks to be more silver. Or is it just the quality of the picture I'm seeing? Or just maybe he had the snare stored and used the bass drum in a smokey old bar or barn dance? Or even town parades? The ride cymbal looks to be tightened down a bit much in that picture. No idea about the high hat cymbals. Should check those also. I would definately put that bass head aside somewhere. Pretty classic art work the way I see it. I had old drums like that when I was transfered to the Army band. They disappeared very quickley. They were great sounding old drums. I'd go around both drums with a tape measure and check to see how round they are. The tape won't lie, keep records of those measurements for future use. Then you can tell if anything has moved since you last checked them. When you take the heads off them, look for any nicks or gouges. Just a little wood putty will fill in any little chips on the edges. Just a little, then sand the filler with fine sandpaper. Just enough to fix any nicks, but don't overdo it. That's as bad as not enough. Once you put on new heads fine tune the drums. I can do it by ear, but prefer using a Drum Dial. Just quicker and easier, especially for someone inexperienced at doing something like that. Great looking old drums, enjoy them. I'm very happy for you.
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Daniel33
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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2008, 05:38 PM » |
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Chip71 - Crappy as the picture is, it's not your eyes. They're two different colors. The snare is grey with a silver band, and the bass is black with a green band. Both are a bit faded, but not too badly. I've taken the heads off before to check the numbers on the inside. Other than what i've stated before, they seems to be in good condition. The Hi Hat is from the 70's, i bought them used. The ride is a piece of junk, given to me by a friend who didn't want it (for obvious reasons). i definitely want to replace it with a better one, but right now my priorities are on improving upon what i've already got and paying off a student loan, so the ride is on the back burner for now. I'll definitely heed your advice on tuning and checking. thank you.
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2008, 07:41 PM » |
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were those 26 or 28 inch drums from the bee bop days?
The larger bass drums were typically used by Big Band or Swing Era drummers. That was definitely 1940's. The Be-Bop era reportedly started around 1945 with some early recordings, but I think it was more a 1950's thing, which is when the Gretsch 18" bd, 12" & 14" tt combo was very widely used.
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Peppe
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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2008, 09:20 PM » |
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Wasn't the 18" bass drum introduced in the 60's? The smaller be-bop kits I've seen from the 50's all seem to have 20" bass drums, with 12" and 14" toms. I think Art Blakey and Elvin Jones were some of the first to use the 18" size, not sure when though.....
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Roger Beverage
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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2008, 10:48 PM » |
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You can get a Remo Fiberskyn in 28" with a built in muffle ring around the outside edge, which will tame the 28" characteristics a little. I just bought two for my civil war marching group.
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