DRUMMER CAFE

Double strokes are important to learn, but I don't think they are the answer to your problem. I think the answer to your problem is to build up the speed of your single strokes. Use a metronome and work your speed up as you can. If you get too fast where you are out of control, then back down a little until you are super comfortable there and then speed back up. It will take some time to get there, but there is no real short cut. That is assuming you want to play clean while playing fast, which I assure you that you do.

I think the fills on that song are generally singles.

As far as using doubles as in "RRLLRRLLRRLLRRLL" to get around the kit - for me, very rarely. And then only in jazz type styles.

Sure, the occasional double for ruffs and/or controlled doubles for an odd-grouping or movement I'll do; but even many "ruff" type ideas I'll often play as singles.

For something like USSR, the fastest fills there are 16ths - and broken groups of 16ths at that. Not just RLRLRLRL, but more like RLRL_LR_. Doubles are of little use there. But even if USSR had a "train beat" of 16ths all the way through - I think singles would still be the ticket. RlrlRlrlRlrlRlrlRlrlRlrlRlrlRlrlRlrlRlr lRlrlRlrlRlrlRlrlRlrlRlrlRlrlRlrlRlrlRl rlRlrlRlrl :-)

Actually not a bad exercise to shoot for.

David

Seems like I recall a thread where someone asked "do you use singles more than doubles on a fill?" ... which sparked a variety of responses and was quite interesting. 

I've tried to incorporate more doubles in my playing... the challenge is to make the notes sound clean on toms. 

I agree, very rare for me also. Still use fast singles, sometimes triplets makes a nice fill if done right. I tried 'diddles also, but ended up going back to singles most of the time for rock.

Wow, Back in the USSR and Iron Man at Church?  Interesting.  Can you tell me the context the songs were to be used in?  I.e., did someone rewrite lyrics?  Or is it a way to reach out to unchurched? 

Anyway, I use a lot of doubles in my playing depending on what I want to do and whether or not I can pull it off with just singles.   

One way to approach this is to use a "lead hand" approach. I think many times people get themselves psyched out by the idea of having to play "fast". But, if you can play 8th-notes with your right hand at any particular tempo, you only need to train your left hand to fill in the spaces between to get 16th notes.

Play the groove and count 1/8ths (1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &) and as you come to the fills start by just playing the 1/8ths with your right hand. Move the eights around the kit, perhaps two on the snare, two on the high tom, depending on how many beats you're going to fill for. Do that a few times until you can comfortably play the 1/8th notes at that tempo on an surface around the kit. Make sure to COUNT those 1/8ths to help keep them in time with the groove. Then follow the same procedure but, when you come to the fills, let your left hand follow your right around and fill in the spaces in between the 1/8ths and voila you've got 16ths at that tempo. Make sure to keep counting those 1/8ths and make your right hand line up with them. Hopefully you can drag your left hand along, too.

Of course, it does. Because no matter how much we practice to make them sound the same, they still always sound different. I was taught, when going for clean and even - never play a more complicated sticking than necessary. Single hand strokes are always going to sound more even and consistent than alternating strokes; just as alternating single strokes will sound more even and consistent than double strokes.

Of course, as the speed of the rhythm to played increases alternating strokes and double strokes are, of course, quite useful and necessary - but they both have limitations, particularly doubles. Which is why I only use doubles for things that are impractical to play any other way. Examples would be many, but not all 32nd's as rolls, ruffs and drags; or as part of paradiddle-type patterns for the unique accent or orchestration patterns they create... these are the main uses of double strokes for me.

But as a substitute for the ability to play fast 16th's on or around the set? At rock and roll tempos? Nah. Too many compromises.

First - dynamics. Compared to singles, doubles have a more restricted dynamic range - particularly limiting on the top end.

Second - limited accent placement and range.  Strong accents really aren't that strong and forget playing syncopated accents.

Third - Doubles really encourage one to play run-on fills - fills that are just strings of constant 16ths. RRLLRRLLRRLLRRLLRRLLRRLLRRLLRRLL - very limiting and basically boring. But it is what doubles do well - in fact it is the only thing they do well.

Fast singles are much more conducive to fills like RlrL_LrlRLrlRLrlRlrlrlrlRLRLRLRL - or - RlrlRlrL_lrL_lR_rl_lr_RL_LR_RLRL

Again - I'm not against doubles - couldn't do all I do without them. But they are a different tool with different purposes than the single stroke roll. And where a strong stroke roll is required, doubles ARE a poor substitute.

David

Yes, other band members can definitely hear the difference between singles and doubles.
Perhaps not most audience members, but I can certainly hear a difference myself, and as I'm the person in charge of what I play, I must stick to playing appropriately rather than giving in to short cut (compromised) ways of playing.
It's similar to the single handed/two handed hi-hat parts.
Playing a fast hi-hat part sounds completely different when performed with one hand. It's appropriate for certain grooves.
It can be very painful and hard work to get your hi-hat hand up to the correct speed for the song, but it is the only way to go.

You're welcome. 

No, I don't bother to learn cross handed... what's da point?  That's kinda like learning to say your ABC's backwards... 

Now that is the problem.  Without a teacher I know I am stumbling around a lot.  I have played piano and flute for years so there is no problem with reading the music but the fundamental techniques and physical use of the kit can be difficult to learn from a book or video. 
I do bug every drummer I meet and am still looking for a teacher.  Until then I just keep going on my own and come to DC for most of my questions and reading. 
Needless to say it is really going well and I am surprised at how quickly songs can be learned (to a certain degree) not to mention how much fun I am having.
I do appreciate all of the help I am given here.
Jen