Um, that's one factor, by my count. Two categories, perhaps.

(Founder member, CaRP - the Campaign for Real Pedantry)

naw, it was an asian woman, very petite; maybe mid 30s-40s at most. i took down her name and can't find the napkin.

chris--if you ever watch jack's instructional vid (i wanna say it's called 'musical expression on the drumkit', but i may be confusing it with another one), you'd see what i mean. in the intro, he does a solo medley where he switches from jazz to rock to funk to reggae. now i suppose that exercise in itself is going to make you shakey, but the funk stuff just wasn't tight, imho. maybe 'groove' wasn't the best word, and i should've specified the genre, but in that funk context, he just wasn't grooving to me. jack grooves, but it's a much freer groove. it's very different from say, gene lake, playing funk. sometimes that tightness is what you need, not freeness.

there's no question jack is committed, but i think he shines most in jazz/freejazz, where there's more room for that openness.

Crap, now you got me all obsessed. Was it Helen Sung?

I really should get that.


I can see what you are saying.
As we were talking about 'artistic jazz drummers' I was focused on that aspect of DeJohnettes playing.
His rock playing and funk grooving is different, but that's Jack.
In whatever genre/context he ticks alot of the 'artsy' boxes IMO.
The way he thinks , the way he plays, the cymbals he's designed, the heads, his kit layout. They are all slightly out of the norm.

You're killin' me lately, Moose... 

hmmmm. hard to say. is helen (asian) american? coz i seem to recall this woman had a rather pronounced accent, and a more common "japanese-sounding" name [takahashi; something along those lines].

the two look very similar, though. 


i've gotta find that napkin, man. i know i have it. probably under a pile of books and laundry...


sir whitten--i acknowledge your thoughts/sentiment. and i also think 'artistic' is definitely subjective! 

i hear ya. plus it'll throw the whole thread off 


i'll get around to doing laundry eventually. the napkin will be found.

I know I'm new to the forum...  I just don't understand how nobody mentioned Manu yet....  Manu Katche "Neighbourhood"...  if that's not artistic (and super melodic) drumming, I don't know what else is.  Sound quality it also top notch- it is clearly among my favorite albums of the last decade...

The last time I saw Manu play was at a PAS convention a few years back. He was playing at an evening concert ... but before he played he gave a little speech (out of frustration) about how he's not viewed as a jazz musician/drummer. He went on to express that he was much more than a rock drummer.

Now, although I dig what I hear on Neighbourhood, what I heard the last time, that night at PAS, was a rock drummer playing jazz. The very thing Manu was complaining about was what I heard!

So yes, labels can really be a bad thing; I fight them all the time. I think Man is a wonderfully, fantastic drummer and I don't place any labels on him. But if Manu or anyone else starts using labels, they may or may not like the response they get from others.

When people hear you in one genre for a long time, you really have to able to switch over and play the "new" or "other" genre(s) very, very well ... in such a way that people only hear you as this new genre musician.

I think Steve Smith has done this very well. What I heard when he was with Journey versus what I hear now with Vital Information ... two distinct genres by one drummer.

For Manu, I think Neighbourhood is a step in the right direction if he is wanting to establish himself as being a rock drummer AND a jazz drummer. But a few years prior to this album, all I heard was a rock drummer playing various styles. 

May have been mentioned already, but...I'd like to add a vote in for the late Billy Higgins.