Then the pendulum swings to the other side and everytime you try to correct them with the tempo you have on the click they say, stop being such a stickler...or, yes, but I would really like to do it at this new tempo. Which just shows them that they were the original ones were off in the tempo feel.

You use the new tempo and the next time it feels too fast for them and your back at the first tempo. It drives ya nuts.
Singers think they know because they can feel the phrasing as the sing and they can tell when its too fast. I believe them to a point, because I believe this can be true, that some things just seem right at just the right tempo. But mostly you discover later that they are very subjective and the next person.

edits mine.

david, thank you for setting the record straight on mr. b's achievements and stature. even in non-bass circles, the dude's been considered something of a demi-god for quite some time. i first heard him playing with bruford back in like '78, and remember the advanced musicians around me praising his style and sound.

he has done plenty o' "mainstream" gigs as well [norah jones, santana, george benson and i think even sheryl crow], and i don't think anyone's complained about his competency in keeping solid time.

also, he definitely never said he has not used a metronome--at least not in this bulletin. i suspect he's used them plenty, and arrived at his insights and conclusions after a lot of use with them.

but whatever. my main area of agreement w/him concerning the metronome lies in his notion of being conscious about playing music, not just pulse.

i like what david said about beginning students not knowing how to use the tool to benefit them. i think a lot of that is because the metronome can be intimidating. it sucks when you don't or can't lock in with it, and like anything else you can't do well, it's easy to blow it off. when you have someone who can focus your consciousness, it's much more effective. i remember playing for a teacher of mine, and i was rushing without realizing it [to the click]. she put her finger on my back to get me to pause and really listen, and it opened a new window for me. so i agree that it's best utilized with the aid of a knowledgable teacher.

going back to jb's personality a bit... i know he's got a reputation for being a bit of a shmuck, but he supports a neat organization--the dr. t. atlas foundation--so he can't be all that bad. also, he's always willing to answer questions. a lot of big names don't want to be bothered with that.


http://www.dratlasfoundation.com/doctoratlasbio.htm

For ones that have fusion backgrounds at all, that would surprise me. But maybe so...

But a lot of the detail of what inspired what and when can get lost over the years.

Heck, I'm of the school, that belief that a good chunk of the accolades 99% of drummers give John Bonham should be laid at Carmine's feet instead.  And if it wasn't for how unusual and weird Vanilla Fudge, and how accessible and great the work of Jimmy Page was, more drummers would agree with me. But, it's right there in the recordings and the dates don't lie - add in the contact the two had, and it ain't hard to go from A to B.

And don't get me started with the whole Miles begetting the whole Mahavishnu odd meter fusion era - really not the rock-edge part, and certainly not the odd meter thing - 'cause Miles never even dabbled in that.

And none of this is at all to belittle the great playing and accomplishments of Bonham or Miles - it's just pointing out that history sometimes gets a little too condensed, a little too quickly is all.

So anyway, at the time, again '79 and early 80's - when Berlin topped the Guitar Player's readers poll for a couple of years, Jeff dropped a bunch of jaws - probably most dramatically with the intro to 5G on the Bruford band "One of a Kind" album.

I think he kind of retired a bit for a few years (his son had cancer - which I guess is going better) and currently teaches, releases solo albums and tours with BX3 - that mega-bass band with Billy Sheenan and Stu Hamm.

dc

"What I really meant to say was E#."