Blackie
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« on: May 05, 2008, 09:49 PM » |
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is there an effective way to do this? i really don't want to use any muffling devices, but rather tune the heads to a certain place to remove them somewhat. a reso tighter than the top will produce the shortest sound, at least i've read, can you guys confirm this? i'm using Ludwig Classic Maples, with Remo Coated pinstripes on batter, and ebony ambassadors on reso. oh, and in bart elliot's "Basic Drum set tuning guide" he talks about a minor 3rd between the heads being the best tuning with the least amount of overtones. How do i distinguish that? So what are some techniques to tune out overtones? or is the only option things like moongel and rings and stuff? thanks again. p.s. sorry about the lowercase letters, some H2O came in contact with my keys  |
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2008, 10:07 PM » |
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Overtones are usually spoken about in the context of unwanted, somewhat discordant tones. These can be fixed with good tuning.
But are you talking about too much sustain in the tom note?
An easy way to fix that, other than choosing drier heads, is to tune the batter head very low.
The resonant head also effects resonance/sustain (of course).
I find keeping the batter head to a medium tension and tensioning the resonance head quite low, also reduces sustain.
Two other things I should say.......
Tom ring can sound too much in a room with no other music, but once you start playing in an ensemble the ring tends to be absorbed into a generally nice tone.
Secondly, I tend to tune to a fairly resonant pitch, and dial out any unwanted sustain with a little tape. It's quick and very flexible.
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Dave Heim
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2008, 08:22 AM » |
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. . . oh, and in bart elliot's "Basic Drum set tuning guide" he talks about a minor 3rd between the heads being the best tuning with the least amount of overtones. How do i distinguish that? . . . You know the Brahms' Lullaby "Go to Sleep"? The interval between 'to' and 'sleep' is a minor third. Also, the "To Dream" part of "To Dream the Impossible Dream" is a minor third. |
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Blackie
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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2008, 09:19 AM » |
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yes, i must be confusing overtones with unwanted sustain.
i'll try everything.
oh, and yes i've noticed that playing with other musicians will kind of absorb the ringing.
For the minor third thing, will tuning the batter to the "to" part of it, and the reso to the "sleep" part?
thanks guys
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New York Frank
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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2008, 10:39 AM » |
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Not sure what your experience is, but this may help:
Have someone play your drums, and you go stand at various distances 10 feet, 20 feet.
You'll be amazed at how different things will sound v.s. what you hear behind the kit.
Also:
1. Tune the note a couple of inches across from each lug - that will clean up some unwanted overtones.
2. Drum gum is an easy solution that does not squash the rest of the tone.
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The secret to my tone is - always plenty of fresh Fruit Of The Loom underwear on hand
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TeReKeTe
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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2008, 12:31 PM » |
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this sounds like a case where a piece of gaff tape with a ridge folded into it will work.
lower-tuned drums generally have less sustain. keep your heads low and play aorund with tuning on both heads to find the least-resonant combination. a fairly-low batter and a quite-low resonant head will be basketbally, but short. work up from there.
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boomka
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2008, 01:22 PM » |
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You know the Brahms' Lullaby "Go to Sleep"? The interval between 'to' and 'sleep' is a minor third. Also, the "To Dream" part of "To Dream the Impossible Dream" is a minor third.
Oh Canada!  |
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In lumine lucem
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Dave Heim
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« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2008, 04:05 PM » |
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Oh Canada! I forgot aboot that one.  |
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Blackie
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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2008, 05:28 PM » |
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Not sure what your experience is, but this may help:
Have someone play your drums, and you go stand at various distances 10 feet, 20 feet.
You'll be amazed at how different things will sound v.s. what you hear behind the kit.
Also:
1. Tune the note a couple of inches across from each lug - that will clean up some unwanted overtones.
2. Drum gum is an easy solution that does not squash the rest of the tone.
yes, i had my other band member hit the floor tom from about 15 feet away from the stage, and i could still hear a lot of the sustain. i'll keep working on it, though. |
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2008, 05:57 PM » |
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A couple of things I would consider in your situation. Take some drum tuning lessons from a teacher, perhaps at a local music store. Buy the Bob Gatzen 'Tuning and Sound Design' DVD. Actually, Bob has put much of it on YouTube:
<![CDATA[<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/uJ9Unab1OzU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/uJ9Unab1OzU</a>]]>I don't think you ever stop learning about drum tuning. I'm constantly reading other drummers' advice and buying educational DVD's. |
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Rhyvven
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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2008, 09:06 AM » |
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yes, i had my other band member hit the floor tom from about 15 feet away from the stage, and i could still hear a lot of the sustain.
i'll keep working on it, though.
Well, I am hearing impaired to begin with but I need to ask, are you hearing this sustain with mic'd drums? If not, you have some darn fine resonant tuned drums if you can "still hear a lot of sustain" at that distance. I interpret that sustain you hear as such: ....*strike*...booooooooooooooooooommm m m m, from 15 feet away?? I would say "nice" if you have that kind of sustain on an un-mic'd drum. |
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Man's Maturity: to have regained the seriousness that he had as a child at play.
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Blackie
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« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2008, 06:15 PM » |
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yes, they're un mic'd.
But i'm figuring it out a little more now.
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drumtechdad
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« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2008, 05:46 PM » |
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yes, they're un mic'd.
. . . then you're on the right track. Toms that sustain will be heard through the band much better. Sometimes you have to tune resos differently to get the same sustain from all the drums. It's a useful exercise to tune a given drum, say a rack tom, with both batter and reso the same. This will give the maximum sustain. Now bring up the reso head a little bit at a time, perhaps an 1/8th turn per rotation. Strike the drum at each stop. You'll hear the sustain dimimish as you raise the reso pitch. You can pretty much dial in the sustain you want. You can experiment with the reso lower than the batter, too, though if your drums are tuned low you may not have much room to move there. |
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