Hi guys,

This will be our first time that we (lead, rhythm, bass & drums) will be playing in a large hall (seating capacity about 400 people) and would like to get some advice on getting our sound through a PA system. Our PA will be 2 main speakers 15”, two subs and two fold backs. I am planning to mic my kick and snare only and possibly two overheads. Is this setup adequate? We play mainly rock & pop songs.

Would it good if the rest of the members connect their sound through to the PA also or just using their own amps be adequate? Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Thank you

In a 400 person hall, I completely agree with this.  I might use one over head turned down and facing the high hat but you are right. With a 400 person hall, the snare will be loud enough.

I also agree with this but generally speaking, you probably don't have the PA/Crossover
to run much bass through because of Passive Filtering and the guitar player will complain about his tone because he can't turn up if you run him though the PA.

The OP did say the venue has tops and subs and I can't imagine they use them without a crossover.

The tone issue with guitarists can be resolved if they'd use small, quality amps that have pre-outs.  Or they could use a DI box.  This way, they can use their amps to get "their" sound and it can be fed into the PA. 

biggest consideration - Who is supplying the PA and is there a soundman?

Kick mic and one or two OHs is sufficient.

If the PA can support it, having the other members all input into the PA is a good thing IF they can control their stage volume. Let the soundman control the Front of House sound. It will be a real learning experience for you. Two foldback? IF the PA can support it, I recommend a minimum of two MIXES, one for you likely in the back and one front. They can link another monitor to the front mix. If only ONE monitor (foldback) mix is available, make it vocals (& acoustic guitar) only. On stage amplifiers CAN be turned angled across stage for the band to hear while still projecting outward.

weps

In that case, the best of luck to you. 

Seriously, is there anyone you know who has experience operating a PA system that might be willing to do it for no charge since it's a charity event?  Can you ask the charity event organizers to supply one?  In my opinion, they should have arranged for that anyway.  Let us know how it turns out.

While I agree with most of your warnings regarding stage volume - I think thinking that your going to even begin to "remove" the stage sound from a 400 seat room is ill advised.  I'm often plagued by this thinking from FOH guys in theaters twice to three times that size.

Of course, it is easier to get a clean mix that way - sort of. The same way its easier to get a clean mix in the studio if you insist on total isolation when recording each element.

Anyway in a 400 seat room - you are stuck with a sound reinforcement concept unless (as often happens) FOH decides to turn the PA up to the point that the stage is drowned out.

But JeepNDrummer, you're right that many bands are their own worst enemy here - with a onstage balance that is so bad, that major surgery is required. But I'm seeing a really vicious circle developing - where on-stage musicians just think that every thing can be just fix and balanced out front so it doesn't matter what goes on stage - and then a generation of sound men that seem to feel the same - or as you've advocated that the best FOH experience is always going to come with the stage sound being as "out of the picture" as possible.

JL -

Unless you're wanting to just KILL your audience with volume, I'd be very careful in a 400 seat room putting anything in your PA (which I suspect isn't all that over-powered to begin with) except vocals and just a kiss of BD (not so loud that you can even tell its there until you turn it off).  If you have time, then with that set-up have someone listen out front and see what (if anything) is horribly lacking. Then either solved that problem on stage or throw another mic up.

David

David, I'm not advocating the removal or even near removal of stage volume.  All of the bands I play with currently use wedges, so in this sense, an appropriate volume level is needed for the type of music we play.

Let me clarify, because this discussion has taken on two points.  The first is overall stage volume, which I never directly addressed.  The second point, which is what I was trying to convey in my post above, concerns the guitarist who brings a huge amp to a small venue and places it flat on the floor directly behind him.

Now consider this: an amp that's effectively pointed at the guitar player's ankles isn't exactly in a very good position to be heard by the musician using it.  What usually happens?  The amp gets cranked up.  What many of them fail to understand is the amp is so darn loud out front, that it's killing people's ears.  It may be pointed at the guitar player's ankles, but it's pointed directly at the ears of the audience.

There are musicans who understand this and place their amps in better positions to be heard.  The amp doesn't necessarily have to be turned around, but pointing it more toward your ears is a step in the right direction.

And don't forget about the purpose of monitors.  With the popularity of pods for guitars and basses, it's so easy to get your "sound" and run it directly into the system.  You can get all the volume you want through the monitor mix.  I have found this cleans up the sound significantly on both the stage and in the FOH.

I also think there might be some misunderstanding with another one of my points.  When I wrote that guitarists ought to plug into the PA, I also wrote that they should make use of the amp's pre-out to feed into the system.  This way, they use their amp to get "their" sound  and feed it into the system.  Of course, I know that not all amps have pre-outs.  Alternatives:  use a DI or mic the amp.

At the benefit concert I mentioned, the lead guitarist from one band was so loud through his guitar amp alone that he overpowered the rest of the band, which used backline and the PA system.  This happens too often and ruins it for the audience and does nothing to promote the band.  Your band isn't likely to ever chase people out of a venue for playing on the low side, but can quickly make it a short gig by playing too loudly.

If you have ever watched Ted Nugent(Strangle Hold) or Hendrix, Stevie Ray(Third Stone from the sun).  They get the feed back tone they want facing the speakers.  I have worked with many guitar players that use this effect.
                               Nutty