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Author Topic: fills aswell! :(  (Read 1386 times)
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flaner
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« on: March 11, 2002, 08:17 AM »

hey guys,
i just posted one problem, but this sorta ties in with the other one.......i have no creativity on my fills!, they are basically just bad rolls round the toms, and it has started to affect the live performances with my band. i feel embarrased doing them. will snare practice help them?, what can i do to improve.....all people have said is 'do rudiments on them', but i can't seem to connect rudiments into my grooves. please help.
thanks
fil Embarrassed
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2002, 09:00 AM »

Yes, practicing just on the snare is going to help you at first. Basically you are just taking what you do on one drum and apply it to the entire set-up.

Sounds like I'm tooting my own horn here, but have a look at the article Expanding Stick Control which is under my 5-Minute Lesson. This will at least get you started on some ways that you can get comfortable with moving around the kit using basic sticking patterns that you are already familar with.

Start from there, then begin creating your own ideas. Listen to other drummers; try copying their fills, licks, etc. Sing different rhythms that you hear in your head and try to apply them to the drumkit.

Again, a good teacher would be really great for you right now.
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Dwarf
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« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2002, 09:02 AM »

Listen to your favourite players.  Then listen to some of your non-favourite players.  Try to grab some of their ideas.  I'll bet they're doing a lot of stuff other than just "bad rolls round the toms".

--
Rob
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felix
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first class all the way :-)


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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2002, 09:27 AM »

I'm on this "new" thing...where I guess it is basically permutating (some one might want to let me know exactly what permutating is) but I have been having really good luck making up cool fills with this technique.

Since I'm such a nice guy (drummer cafe motto) I'll let you all know what I'm up to.

I have this thing for 5's and 7's and what I have been doing is inverting single and double diddle stickings across the grouping.  I write all the inversions across the pattern during commercials on TV and then when practice time comes along I play them to see whats hip or not.  I must say I have been pleased with the initial results.  I work them out on snare first then I displace the voices on the toms.
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Sonor, The Drummers Drum
rlhubley
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« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2002, 10:29 AM »

Since I'm such a nice guy, I'll share a trick I have had good luck with.

In the Ted Reed book, Syncopation(which you MUST own), you can use some of the lessons for fills.  Take p.37 for example.  Play the first line as written, not too interesting.  Now, play it again, but play triplets the whole way through and play the written part as accents.  Next, do the same thing, but play the accents on toms or cymbals and the "inside notes" on the snare.  Now, play around with this using differnt  subdivisions and even different books.  This is a great way to gain fill ideas.  

ANother trick is to use your 3rd hand(bass drum) to fill in empty spaces in the fill.  
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felix
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first class all the way :-)


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« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2002, 10:51 AM »

I don't think you are very nice since the poor kid has to go out and buy "Syncopation".  LOL, If you were "REALLY NICE" you would notate some of that stuff for him and post it...but you couldn't be exact with the transcription because of plagarism now would you? A nice guy would never do such a thing.

A really nice guy would probably notate what you just said with your triplets, 3feet, whatever and post THAT.
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Sonor, The Drummers Drum
rlhubley
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« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2002, 11:08 AM »

Ok, you're right.  I am the bastard patron of the forum!

But seriosly, i could post some of that stuff tonight if you need it, i just don't know how!  BTW, Syncopation is about $10 or less, go buy it.  Even if you never use it for anything other than a coaster, you must at least own it!
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scream187
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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2002, 02:39 PM »

go to www.digevent.com under the "drum beat" section, look in the archive shows for the one about fills. Now if that doesnt help your creativity i dont know what will!

Theres like 50 lessons on different topics, And it goes from beginer to relly advanced stuff, the guy is amazin, I suggest everyone to check it out.
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rudibass2
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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2002, 04:27 AM »

 Hey Slip , thanx for the link up .
      How the hell are ya ?
     I haven't IM'ed with you or XtreamDB in a while . Been tring to maintain a normal sleep pattern so I have been missing out on the Vampire Hour chats ! Roll Eyes

     How's that solo coming ?
     Are you guys still partying over the Olympic hockey win ? Sad  
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Peter Jeffery
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« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2002, 12:21 AM »

Yo Flaner.....in case you haven't taken Scream187's advice....I'll second that motion!  www.digevent.com is an awesome resource for free video lessons and help with (as you required)  -FILLS!    

Rlhubley also has some great ideas....you can take a basic 4/4 'hand pattern' or rudiment and substitute with a bass drum note for any of the given 16th notes.  This, if played in a linear style, is one of the many great ways to lighten up your fills and might help in getting them to really groove.  

Felix's permutations sound cool!   If that's interesting to ya,  check out David Garibaldi's 'Future Sounds.'    It's more advanced....not sure where you're at.  

Hey...@$%#...I think I just managed to support the other guy's replies and say NOTHING original in the process myself!   It's post-gig for me and much too late (or too early) to practice so I guess I gotta continue making some drumming noise somewhere....what better place than here!!    
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Peter Jeffery
felix
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first class all the way :-)


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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2002, 04:24 AM »

yeah, what a bizarre concept- being original but not alienating yourself from the audience.

It's tough.  I mean even if I was to pick up Future Sounds or start playing triplets in "Syncopation" with RH lead.  That stuff does not sound "original" to me anymore.  Thousands of other cats are doing it !
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Sonor, The Drummers Drum
irishthump
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« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2002, 07:45 PM »

Just to touch on something you said earlier, about people telling you to "just do rudiments on the toms", I think a common mistake  a lot of drummers (experienced as well as novices) make is to make a direct connection between rudiments and drum fills.
 I think they are missing the point a little, rudiments should be practiced to improve your TECHNIQUE so that when you hear an idea for a fill or rhythm (either in your head or from another drummer or from a song) you can play it fluently. i.e. all the accents appear where they should and your arms don't end up in a knot. The best inspiration for drummers is to LISTEN! To other drummers and to what's going on around you when you play. Remember it's all right to steal ideas, all the greatest drummers were thieves who did'nt get caught!

Have fun! Smiley
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Peter Jeffery
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« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2002, 07:39 PM »

Awesome point, Irishthump!!   I was going to make a similar mention days ago but thought better at the time.   I'm from the Jim Blackley school of thought.   You totally reminded me of him.  Anyone heard of Jim?   www.jimblackley.com

He's essentially one of drumming's older masters...not part of any hip current scene, however, many of his current/recent students are big name players who fly into Ontario, Canada for their monthly lessons.  Others aren't.   Either way -he's incredible, but he AIN'T cheap!

Anyway, to get to my point....or rather 'Jim's point'  -essentially that rudimental drumming may have it's place, however, it shouldn't necessarily be the main concern of the 'jazz schooled drummer.'  

Before continuing, I should mention that the forward intro to his 'Syncopated Rolls For The Modern Drummer' is copyright from 1961...so I would assume 'jazz' is essentially his reference to not just purely jazz but in general to all popular music of the time.   Most of it being jazz!!   Grin    This as opposed to the 'other' school  -the marching or rudimental drummer.  

Anyway, I've had Jim's 'Roll' book for 10 years and love it.   No shiny B.S. involved...strictly 'wax on, wax off'  type stuff.   His students are some of my absolute favorite players.  VERY musical drummers and most seem have their own unique signature.   That's not a matter of coincidence.  

It's true- too many strictly applied rudiments and ignoring more of the naturally felt, looser feel stuff (sorry -not a good description on my part) can leave you sounding like 100,000 other cats.   Weckl even had to address that problem in his own playing.   He went to Freddie Gruber who I would expect is much like Jim.  

Anyway, it seems to me the simplest way to avoid this trend is simply by not making rudiments the core of your practicing existence.    Rudiments seem often to be the easiest recipe to rhythms and motion on the kit and players can end up sounding too much like others, just to lesser and greater levels of expertise.  

RLHubley made a comment recently about the importance of 'listening.'   As Jim says; (quote) 'being completely familiar with the composition and hearing the bass line, chord line, and melody line with clarity, is the key to sound musical performance.'  (end quote)  

For alternatives to the strict rudimental thing, I'd encourage anyone to check out Blackley's materials....I believe there might be samples on his web site.  Not sure how deep he goes into his theories there though.  

I'm not trying to tell anyone 'how it is' by ANY means...don't take it this way.   It's just another frame of mind that, in my opinion at least, is worth considering for those of us who spend a lot of time with rudimental study.  

Jeeeez I'm long-winded!!!     Angry Angry Angry
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Peter Jeffery
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