Check out Bart Elliott's review of the new Aquarian Hi-Velocity Snare Drumhead on Drummer Cafe TV this week.


Drummer Cafe Community Forum
November 21, 2008, 01:40 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Zildjian Honors Ginger Baker at the Drummers Achievement Awards
 
   Home   Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Tension  (Read 394 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Smitty
Cafe VIP
Gold Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 519



« on: September 09, 2008, 05:36 PM »

As I understand it, you should never have physical tension when you play.Your body, limbs, fingers, etc. should all be completely relaxed whenever you’re playing.This makes complete sense to me, but don’t even great players regularly experience tension? For instance, take a look at the picture of Vinnie linked below. This looks like tension to me.

http://www.carlocavallini.it/files/vinniecolaiuta.jpg

Think of other professional drummers who get that clenched grimace going when they’re really wailing. Am I mistaking the “ripping face” for physical tension?

When your playing hard and fast, isn’t their tension?

I am really intrigued with the concept of achieving relaxed tension-free playing.
Logged
Bart Elliott
Chef de Cuisine
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 12748


peace


WWW
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2008, 05:59 PM »

If you move ... you have tension ... you can't move without tension; scientifically speaking.

The phrase about staying relaxed is more about "tension and release" than trying to imply that you're nothing but a jellyfish the entire time you play.

With that said, there are different levels of tension; good and bad. The "bad tension" is when you tighten up which actually restricts, making it harder to play. Short bursts of tension, as seen in the Vinnie photo, is not what I would consider "bad tension" ... but if that kind of tension was maintained it would actually hinder, not help, and would be physically unhealthy.

I think appearances are deceiving somewhat, especially when analyzing someone else's playing tension or lack thereof.

Music itself is about tension and release; consonance and dissonance.

I'm a huge patron of playing relaxed 99% of the time, but sometimes you have to play something that is beyond the relaxation threshold, like a particular drum lick. My philosophy, for what it's worth, is that it's okay to have short-term or short bursts of tension. You have to have tension in your arm when throwing a ball, but when you release the ball you release the tension. If you didn't apply tension in your hand, you couldn't hold on to the drumstick! But like I said, it depends on the level of tension.

I think "good tension" is when you apply the minimum amount of tension to execute the task or function, then immediately relax. "Bad tension" is when you are putting WAY too much tension for the task/function at hand ... or when you never release the tension once the task/function is complete.

The whole "stage show" is a different matter where players intentionally look tense or actually tense up in order to entertain the audience. If you take two drummers both playing the exact same drum lick, one looks fluid and completely relaxed while the other is making a face and making it look hard ... which does the audience typically go "wow" about? The one with tension or who makes it look hard. I should say that the uneducated audience tends to approve the tension and making it look hard ... and prefer that over the totally relaxed performer with a blank stare on their face.

I really hate it, but I'm learning to be more "entertaining" in how I look when I play. Making it look harder than it is plus trying to appear like I have tension when my body is actually completely relaxed. Not easy for me to do, but clearly many players have it down.  Cool
Logged

My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
Bart Elliott
Chef de Cuisine
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 12748


peace


WWW
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2008, 06:23 PM »

Here's an "example" from a photo shoot I was at just the other day that was for an artist's music video. I was goofing around, taking something that is simple/easy and trying to make it look hard ... sort of.  Roll Eyes  The photo was snapped just after the lick, so you can't really tell what I was doing ... and thus this really isn't a good example. Still, I was trying to look goofy ... so there you go!


Pay no attention to the man behind the drumkit.
Logged

My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
Smitty
Cafe VIP
Gold Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 519



« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2008, 06:39 PM »

Well, this is some excellent info to chew on!   Thanks, Bart, for the thoughtful and helpful response.  I can't wait to hear others chime in. Smiley
Logged
Louis
Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5839


Will Drum for BBQ


WWW
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2008, 06:48 PM »

I was trying to look goofy ...

Mission accomplished!   

Logged

No one will believe it's the "Blues" if you wear a suit, 'less you happen to be an old person, and you slept in it last night!
Nathan
Cafe VIP
Silver Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 453


Drums and Marine Biology


WWW
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2008, 07:24 PM »

Vinnie is 'mugging' for the camera.  Take a look at his hands...wide open and relaxed. 

Logged

Yer off the edge of the map now, mate. Here there be monkeys on crack!

Music is The Best!
~f.z.

What would John Galt do?
Danno
supporter
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 1399


Drummer Cafe rocks!


« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2008, 01:55 PM »

Vinnie is 'mugging' for the camera.  Take a look at his hands...wide open and relaxed. 



And watch Bonham playing In My Time Of Dying on the double Led Zep DVD - he makes a few faces too, but his playing is TOTALLY relaxed. You can see the contrast from his earlier, much more 'frantic' playing on the same DVD.
Logged
Paicey
Platinum Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1524


I love the Drummer Cafe!


« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2008, 12:13 PM »

I need to pay attention to tension. Alot of times i hold my breath during fills. When you do this regularly it can make you overly tired after a gig. Tension is something i have to consciously think about while playing or ill go right back into my old habits. This is something ive been concentrating on as of late.
Logged
Nathan
Cafe VIP
Silver Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 453


Drums and Marine Biology


WWW
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2008, 04:20 PM »

Holding my breath has always been a HUGE problem for me.  I found that singing harmony vocals has helped a lot.  You can't sing when you don't breathe. 
Logged

Yer off the edge of the map now, mate. Here there be monkeys on crack!

Music is The Best!
~f.z.

What would John Galt do?
gatorsnot
Cafe VIP
Copper Member

Online Online

Posts: 81



« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2008, 08:54 PM »

I've been a victim of holding my breathe, especially during fills.  I am now very "vocal" when I play but that's OK since nobody will ever actually hear me.  It makes me breathe this way.  I typically breathe out on my fills and always on the longer ones.

It has helped me become more relaxed as well but minimal tension is something I'm still working on.
Logged

Zildgian's to the left of me, Paiste's to the right.
playinpearls
Copper Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 8


« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2008, 07:28 AM »

Heh, i've been known to let out a little squeal here and there when i'm really getting into a fill, especially if I start to get my hands mixed up and i'm trying to do math in my head so i can end on a cymbal...

luckily, its never happened in the studio....

i'm pretty plain faced though, and really relazed when i play. People always tell me i look like my arms are made of water or ribbon because of how i hold the sticks and how i play....
Logged
Danno
supporter
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 1399


Drummer Cafe rocks!


« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2008, 08:37 PM »

...People always tell me i look like my arms are made of water or ribbon because of how i hold the sticks and how i play....

That makes me think of Matt Abts of Govt Mule. I listened to him long before I ever saw him and to just listen, you'd think he was whaling on those drums. Then I saw him on a DVD and he's the most fluid, relaxed drummer I think I've ever seen. Blew me away.
Logged
eardrum
Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 1328


It's not too late to get better!


« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2008, 12:29 AM »

Vinnie is 'mugging' for the camera.  Take a look at his hands...wide open and relaxed. 



No, not mugging, he's actually working out the answer to the question on his website about how can God manage the universe and suspend the laws of physics for his playing at the same time? Of course he's comming up to the part where the band drops the 16th note so he's also calculating the statistical probability of a bead of sweat dropping over his eye at the exact same time and whether or not he'll have time to get a latte on the way to the next recording session. 
Logged
Schlagzeuger
Copper Member

Online Online

Posts: 95



« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2008, 06:32 AM »

A majority of the time that I screw up is when I tense up.  I play my best when I am relaxed and let it flow.  The problem is I tend to tense when the speed of the song goes way up.  If I'm playing 16ths on the high hat for a high energy song, I have to remember to relax my upper back, shoulders and arms.
Logged

Pearl Export Series
Zildjians all around
Nathan
Cafe VIP
Silver Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 453


Drums and Marine Biology


WWW
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2008, 07:03 AM »

No, not mugging, he's actually working out the answer to the question on his website about how can God manage the universe and suspend the laws of physics for his playing at the same time? Of course he's comming up to the part where the band drops the 16th note so he's also calculating the statistical probability of a bead of sweat dropping over his eye at the exact same time and whether or not he'll have time to get a latte on the way to the next recording session. 

All while trying to swallow a piece of sushi.
Logged

Yer off the edge of the map now, mate. Here there be monkeys on crack!

Music is The Best!
~f.z.

What would John Galt do?
playinpearls
Copper Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 8


« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2008, 07:37 AM »

All while trying to swallow a piece of sushi.


....on fire. Grin
Logged
percusboy
Copper Member

Online Online

Posts: 15


« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2008, 12:14 PM »

As I understand it, you should never have physical tension when you play.Your body, limbs, fingers, etc. should all be completely relaxed whenever you’re playing.This makes complete sense to me, but don’t even great players regularly experience tension? For instance, take a look at the picture of Vinnie linked below. This looks like tension to me.

http://www.carlocavallini.it/files/vinniecolaiuta.jpg

Think of other professional drummers who get that clenched grimace going when they’re really wailing. Am I mistaking the “ripping face” for physical tension?

When your playing hard and fast, isn’t their tension?

I am really intrigued with the concept of achieving relaxed tension-free playing.

this is fascinating.  You know trumpet players have the same discussions about playing high.  Tension and what is tension?  I mean, you do need more pressure to make things happen but when does that pressure become 'tense'?  Interesting!!!!
Logged
Vipercussionist
Copper Member

Online Online

Posts: 33


1960's Ludwig Club Date 28in Kick


« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2008, 02:00 PM »

As I understand it, you should never have physical tension when you play.Your body, limbs, fingers, etc. should all be completely relaxed whenever you’re playing.This makes complete sense to me, but don’t even great players regularly experience tension? For instance, take a look at the picture of Vinnie linked below. This looks like tension to me.

http://www.carlocavallini.it/files/vinniecolaiuta.jpg

Think of other professional drummers who get that clenched grimace going when they’re really wailing. Am I mistaking the “ripping face” for physical tension?

When your playing hard and fast, isn’t their tension?

I am really intrigued with the concept of achieving relaxed tension-free playing.
I don't know how it works out for anyone else, but I play BETTER and I can do MORE cool stuff (chops related)  when I'm not tense. When I'm tense, for WHATEVER reason, I have to play much more simply, stay in the "safe zone" so to speak. I think the feel is better when I'm loose too, tension makes me play a bit sluggish.

I find that some shedding does wonders to get you loose. If you've had the chance to teach the muscle patterns how to do things right it'll be easier and more effortless on a gig. Trying things cold leads to playing tentatively. I HATE playing tentatively!!

Unfortunately it has literally been years since I've been able to practice at home on a KIT. Living in small non-drum friendly apartments and such has taken it's toll on my playing. I have FINALLY gotten into a house where I can build myself a drum room and set up a kit to shed on. It's going to be GLORIOUS!!!
Logged

Most respect the badge, but all fear the drum.
__________________
Things to share
Thanks are implied
You are always welcome
Listen To BONHAM here!!
__________________
ViperSpace
Bonham
Copper Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 6


Ludwig van Beat-Snare-In


« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2008, 04:51 AM »

You need that tension there, the kind of loose playing that needs it. But you never tense so much that you're not using your wrists, rather, more a robot.

Only beginners do that, and that's because they aren't comfortable yet. It's all about being comfortable and having the experience.
Logged
eardrum
Cafe VIP
Platinum Member

Online Online

Posts: 1328


It's not too late to get better!


« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2008, 01:53 PM »

I'd say there are different types of tension. One type is from trying to do stuff you are not comfortable with. The reason (or one of them) you practice a part at fast tempos would be so that you can play it comfortably, relaxed and with good feel at the normal tempo.   Performing something difficult/fast that I haven't got nailed down will create all kinds of tension, in my mind, in my body, in the rest of the band, etc..  So in one sense and there may be debate on this, you should never perform something faster than you practice it.

On the other hand, we want to build tension in the music at points and expressing that tension visually is often done, e.g., Clenched teeth, wild expressions, dramatic flailing, physically straining to do something faster than we've ever done it before….   Do some drummers get carried away in the emotion and moment? Absolutely!  A great drummer can do that and always get right back into the groove, relaxed and controlled.   
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.7 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.166 seconds with 20 queries.
Copyright ©2001 - 2008 Drummer Cafe. All rights reserved.
developed by Bart Elliott | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Site Map