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Author Topic: Another single pedal topic  (Read 1170 times)
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AndyDierker
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« on: January 01, 2003, 02:22 PM »

Alright. I've got a question or three.

I used to play really fast on my single pedal. Most common of my chosen beats was the "du-da-dudu-da" single-double beat. I hope you guys know what I'm talking about. I played it a lot in the punk band I was in. Very fast tempo.

Well for a couple of months there, I started broadening my horizons a bit, and was playing almost exclusively slower tempos. Now, I've gone back to trying to play those beats - and I can't!

First of all, there have been some pretty radical changes in my equipment. I'm still playing my old 22x16 kick, but I used to have a POwerstroke 3 on it, and it was muffled with a HUGE pillow. No resonance at all. And it also gave me a very hard surface to thwack - which I think might have been why I pulled those off so easy in the first place. Now I use an Evans EMAD tuned pretty low (i.e., lots of give), with zero muffling (except for the supplied ring.) There is noticeably more "give" to the head.

I've also changed pedals. I used to use the old single chain Yamaha FP700 that came with my set. I've since upgraded to a DW5000AD. I will admit that all of the "features" on the DW are intimidating to me, and I know I don't fully understand all of their functions. But I've sat and configured, and reconfigured, and I can get something that feels comfortable, but I'm never really getting those single=double kicks that I want/need.

I think equipment plays a role. But it's probably more my technique. I searched the other threads, looking for some kind of pattern I could play on a single kick that would help me develop speed and endurance. Bart said once, "The rudiments you play with your hands - play with you feet," or something like that. Well, I would. But I only have one pedal! Should I play the left "hand" on the hi-hat? But then, won't I be developing DOUBLE-BASS technique?

I've also thought of buying a double-bass pedal and using it as a "Cheater Pedal," but that idea kinda makes me blush. I know it can be done with one foot. And I wanna do it.

Basically, tell me anything you can on how to get my single pedal rocking. What techniques do you use to develop faster, more precise single pedal work? Excercises? Hints? Tips? Thanks.
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BlackEvovii
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« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2003, 07:57 PM »

tahat du da dudu da do you mean

         1        2       3       4
snare          o                o
bass  o                 oo


as for your head change, it could be that you were so accoustomed to alot of bounce back.  Now that you have a looser head tension, its forcing you to work harder to pull of what you are trying to do.   As for rudiments yea, just as long as you got the foot playing the majority of things.  

A good work out is playing a group of 3 bass drum notes starting on 1   2   3   4 so it would be 1e+ 2e+ etc on the bass......then shift the last bass drum note over one so it turns into 1e  a2e  a3e  etc on bass

then switch it to +a1 +a2 etc
then e+a

then constant bass drum while using snare on 2 and 4 and for more cordination hi hat on 1 3

might have something to do with not finding a comfortable pedal tension too.
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bateradrums
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« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2003, 03:54 AM »

Another thing is:
Do you still have your old drum pedal?
I hope so. If yes, put the pedal back to your new tuning of your new  bass drumhead. Check if stills feels good to you. if yes, keep on switching back and forth between old pedal, new pedal , some adjustment on spring tension on new pedal.

Obviously, by the way you have your kick tuned now, you won't have that big bouncing back for the easier second stroke. the head is loose absorbing the first impact.
You'll have to practice and aquire some new technique for your right feet.  It's not the end of the world. First, decide which way you want your feet to move to get your double stroke. (heel up, toe-heel, heel down)
I personaly use toe than heel to get two notes.
Practice very slow, so you can understand what your foot has to do to get those two consecutives 16th notes very clear and confortable. You're teaching your foot what to do. Believe me he'll learn and pay you back with solid/rapid doubles on single pedal.
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felix
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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2003, 10:20 AM »

There are many ways to develop your right foot... and the amazing thing is it works for your left also Grin

I have gotten some great exercise from big name guys that I acutally paid THOUSANDS yes THOUSANDS of dollars to aquire to develop the lower legs/foot technique.

But I'm not sure I want to share them.  I mean why?  I want to "du da dudu da" faster than anyone else.  That's why I paid the big bucks in the first place.

Maybe if you said "pretty please with sugar on top" I might think about it?  OK?

Love,
felix



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kappamax
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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2003, 11:05 AM »

Alright. I've got a question or three.

I used to play really fast on my single pedal. Most common of my chosen beats was the "du-da-dudu-da" single-double beat. I hope you guys know what I'm talking about. I played it a lot in the punk band I was in. Very fast tempo.

Well for a couple of months there, I started broadening my horizons a bit, and was playing almost exclusively slower tempos. Now, I've gone back to trying to play those beats - and I can't!

First of all, there have been some pretty radical changes in my equipment. I'm still playing my old 22x16 kick, but I used to have a POwerstroke 3 on it, and it was muffled with a HUGE pillow. No resonance at all. And it also gave me a very hard surface to thwack - which I think might have been why I pulled those off so easy in the first place. Now I use an Evans EMAD tuned pretty low (i.e., lots of give), with zero muffling (except for the supplied ring.) There is noticeably more "give" to the head.

I've also changed pedals. I used to use the old single chain Yamaha FP700 that came with my set. I've since upgraded to a DW5000AD. I will admit that all of the "features" on the DW are intimidating to me, and I know I don't fully understand all of their functions. But I've sat and configured, and reconfigured, and I can get something that feels comfortable, but I'm never really getting those single=double kicks that I want/need.

I think equipment plays a role. But it's probably more my technique. I searched the other threads, looking for some kind of pattern I could play on a single kick that would help me develop speed and endurance. Bart said once, "The rudiments you play with your hands - play with you feet," or something like that. Well, I would. But I only have one pedal! Should I play the left "hand" on the hi-hat? But then, won't I be developing DOUBLE-BASS technique?

I've also thought of buying a double-bass pedal and using it as a "Cheater Pedal," but that idea kinda makes me blush. I know it can be done with one foot. And I wanna do it.

Basically, tell me anything you can on how to get my single pedal rocking. What techniques do you use to develop faster, more precise single pedal work? Excercises? Hints? Tips? Thanks.

Try keeping your foot on the platform and with the heel down have the beater slightly touch the head and then bounce back as far as it will go just using spring tension and keeping your footweight out of the way, letting the beater almost touch the top of your foot. This helps you build the muscles that are needed for fast and accurate playing. If you are familiar with the "Rocking Motion" on the pedal platform, try to apply what I just wrote to that technique: Steve Smith showed this to me and it really worked. Good Luck
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Misenko
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2003, 11:15 AM »

Quote
I want to "du da dudu da" faster than anyone else.

Too funny Grin

Misenko.
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Ratamatatt
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2003, 11:57 AM »

Alright. I've got a question or three.

I used to play really fast on my single pedal. Most common of my chosen beats was the "du-da-dudu-da" single-double beat. I hope you guys know what I'm talking about. I played it a lot in the punk band I was in. Very fast tempo.

Let's see, you mean the same beat that every teenager and his mother who ever walked into a Mars or Guitar Center drum dpartment (whether they actually play drums or not), and asked to borrow some sticks and proceeds to play  at a deafening volume especially when you are trying to talk to someone, and even moreso when the salesman is on the phone.  That beat?Yes, I think I'm familiar with it.  LOL.  

My advice, learn another beat.  But seriously, there's a method book for foot develpment that I've heard good things about, although I haven't used it, by a drummer who's name I believe is Colin Baily.  

Ratamatatt
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felix
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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2003, 12:08 PM »

Quote
Try keeping your foot on the platform and with the heel down have the beater slightly touch the head and then bounce back as far as it will go just using spring tension and keeping your footweight out of the way, letting the beater almost touch the top of your foot. This helps you build the muscles that are needed for fast and accurate playing. If you are familiar with the "Rocking Motion" on the pedal platform, try to apply what I just wrote to that technique: Steve Smith showed this to me and it really worked. Good Luck

That is a very good exercise...practice your subdivisions with each foot at different tempos using a click as well...try "gearing" them up or down 1/'4's 1/4note trips, 1/8th's etc.
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AndyDierker
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« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2003, 03:10 PM »

Ratt: You mean those kids can actually do it? Argh. Now I feel totally lame.

All they play here is incredibly easy and slow metal beats. Like cymbal crash on 1, snare hit on 3, and just boring straight 8ths on double bass. Ad nauseum.
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sandmanunc
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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2003, 09:10 PM »

learn to snap your foot. build muscle there. then learn to do it fast. no matter the "give" you'll get some doubling in there. ask me if you still ain't got it.
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ritarocks
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2003, 10:41 PM »

hehe,  that's funny,  "du-da-dudu-da" .  I say "gu-ga-gugu-ga", what onomotapea (or however you spell that) do y'all other drummers out there say?  My friend says "bup-pat-bupbup-pat"...
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Louderdb
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« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2003, 06:11 AM »

Let's see, you mean the same beat that every teenager and his mother who ever walked into a Mars or Guitar Center drum dpartment (whether they actually play drums or not), and asked to borrow some sticks and proceeds to play  at a deafening volume especially when you are trying to talk to someone, and even moreso when the salesman is on the phone.  That beat?Yes, I think I'm familiar with it.  LOL.  

My advice, learn another beat.  

LOL!!!!!!! I was so wanting a job in a music store until the guy that owned it told me two things..... "your paid on commision only and there's this thing with kids comming in here all the time!" LMAO! Too funny!
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Louis
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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2003, 06:36 AM »

I hang at the music store quite a bit.  I don't even like to play the du-da-dudu-da now.  I hope the new breed of kids coming in learn some new chops Grin
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guerrillawar
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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2003, 11:52 PM »

stupid kids lol
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nudrum
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2003, 10:29 AM »

If I may be so bold as to get back to the topic....
Have you moved your stool in relationship to the bass pedal? Farther away perhaps? Did you put a hole in the resonant head? Have you changed bassdrum pedals recently? Humm, I think I can anser the last question... yes!
Check the old pedal side by side the new one, you've done that already?  
Did you change your technique when you went to slower tempos? Heel down for more control? Try using heel up at slower temps and work your way up.
I know I've rerun some ideas but at least I stayed somewhere near the topic!!!!
 Grin
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pete
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« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2003, 01:35 PM »

I had the same thing happen to me years ago.

Not to worry.  Wink

The change you described is enough to throw anyone off and it's something you will have to just accustom yourself to. You will.

Look at your old and new pedal in direct comparison. Note the differences. What about the spring tension and beater distance away from the head? Really try and differentiate between them.

If the pedals are essentially the same, it's the head that is throwing you off. If that's the case, you will have to adapt and here's where experimenting with the beater distance and as someone above mentioned, the placement of your foot on the foot board.

There are equipment alternatives, as well. Have you heard of the VRUK pedal attachment? Try one sometime and see if the principle helps. It emulates the Ludwig Speed King concept for heel-up drummers. I now use them all the time, despite the fact that I am a heel-down player (it's the comfort).

Be patient and don't give into frustration. You'll be through this before long.  Smiley

Pete

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snuf
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« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2003, 10:50 AM »

I know what du-da dudu-da means. It's a technique you can't explain. It's a matter of feeling. So i would use the old pedal an swith to the new one, and again the old one, ... so you get the chance to learn it back on you're old pedal and in time it wil work on you're new one. it's not a matter of hardware or drums. these things can only make you slower or faster, but they can't take away you're technique. It's one way to play it. you can also play: duda du-duda wich is used more in punk. or duda-duda or dadudadu. Further you have double pedals to use for these things so you'll get the same sound, but more dynamic, like stung out or no use for a name uses. it's like: richt foor, snare+hi-hat, left foot, right foot, snare+hi-hat. It's not cheating, it lays more accent and it's used for different riffs then the technique you descrive.
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jokerjkny
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« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2003, 03:53 PM »


[snip]

Steve Smith showed this to me and it really worked. Good Luck

yea, Steve showed that to me too...

on his DVD...

Wink

btw, i cant stand DW pedals.  for heel down, they just feel weird to me.  i do like Tama's ICs, and especially with my Ludwig Speed King, i'm "du-du-ing" all over the place!

ok, that didnt sound kosher...  Lips Sealed

but, i know where you're coming from.  a friend of mine has a foot of steel, and does cool double hits that sound like they came from a double bass pedal setup.

its all about strengthening your muscles down there with basic rudi's.  best thing to do is just basic heel down and heel up strokes to a metronome set to 1/4 note speed, then 1/8 note, then 1/16 note, etc. speeding up to a point where your foot gains that speed.

hard work, baby.
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