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rlhubley
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« on: February 21, 2002, 10:07 AM » |
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Ok, I have recently joined a latin/jazz band. I know some latin stuff, but I'm quite rusty on it. I'd like to know what you guys think are the most important/used latin grooves so that I can start working on those immediatly. I am already doing work with sambas(specifically, I'm doing p.1 of Stick Control over a samba, it's getting me back into shape!!), and naningo(I really need ideas for fills and going deeper into naningo, well, samba too!!) Anyway, I am now able to spend time daily behind a real kit, and the latin stuff is definitely a priority.
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Gaddabout
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2002, 10:38 AM » |
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Ok, I have recently joined a latin/jazz band. I know some latin stuff, but I'm quite rusty on it. I'd like to know what you guys think are the most important/used latin grooves so that I can start working on those immediatly. Sambas, mambos and bossa novas. There are others, but you've got to own those three before anything else. Also, study the difference between Brazillian and Cuban rhtyhms. Chuck Silverman's got a book on this, I think. |
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Odd meter isn't broken. It doesn't need to be fixed. - David Crigger
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rlhubley
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2002, 10:40 AM » |
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I've got one of Chuck's books, I just started working on it. Practical something or other. It's a great book. I also know of a book written by Maria Martinez that is GREAT. She was one of my teachers at MI, best chick drummer I've ever seen! Man she could groove.
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clearseawater
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2002, 01:22 PM » |
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On Chucks site there was a few exercises (dont know about now though) from the Songo master...Changito. Theres also a 3/4 page chart from the same guy..its worth doing but I personaly didnt like the sound of it (took me a while because I not a good reader). Books wise, ive tended to rely on the Net and a drummer over hear named Graeme Culham as im not really into the traditional applications of these styles, but saying that, most of my latin work is based around the NY Mozambique (Gadd ver not trad), Various Songo's and the Naningo. I find these the most adaptable in a fusion setting, especially with different clav'e families with the left foot. On the naningo fill topic have you thought about applying a paradiddle-diddle to the end of the second bar. Its something I do and it does add some spice to the sound of it....tells everyone your ready to solo  |
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Adam Blevins
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2002, 03:20 PM » |
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If you wanna learn some hip samba grooves, check out a book called "Creative Coordination for the Performing Drummer" by: Keith Copeland.
It has a lot of cool samba stuff in addition to some bossas and other stuff (funk and jazz exercises).
--adam--
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SheldonWhite
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« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2002, 08:51 AM » |
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In addition to the excellent technical suggestions that have been suggested, I suggest you listen to a lot of latin styles to learn the typical song structures and phrasings. I think you'll find that you don't need to play complex patterns most of the time if the accents and clave are really happening. Listen to people like Airto, Ignacio Berroa and Alex Acuna. While they have the chops, they can propel the song using fairly simple playing. Also, remember that most drummers get infatuated with really fast chops-laden samba patterns that don't really sway properly. It's better to play this stuff a bit slower and with more feeling.
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rudibass2
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« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2002, 09:49 AM » |
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My Jazz Cd collection is pretty dismal except for Big Band stuff . I do have one that I would recommend .
Arturo Sandoval's -- HOT HOUSE
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2002, 09:59 AM » |
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These three books are a MUST HAVE, in my opinion; they are part of my TOP 30 Drum Method Books list. Funkifying the Clave (with CD) by Lincoln Goines and Robby Ameen Afro-Cuban Rhythms for Drumset (with CD) by Frank Malabe and Bob Weiner Brazilian Rhythms for Drumset (with CD) by Duduka Da Fonseca and Bob Weiner I also think it's VERY important for a drummer/percussionist to not only know the beats, but understand WHY you play what you play when performing certain grooves. Knowing WHERE each beat comes from, WHAT to play to make it sound like a particular Latin groove, and WHEN it is appropriate to play one groove or another. Learn the history of the Latin grooves, as well as the What, When, Where and Why ... and you'll be far better off. It will also allow you to come up with your own hybrid beats, while still keeping within the genre of the originally intended groove. |
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James Walker
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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2002, 11:27 AM » |
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I also think it's VERY important for a drummer/percussionist to not only know the beats, but understand WHY you play what you play when performing certain grooves. Just to add to Bart's comments - many of the drum set grooves/styles being discussed in this thread are attempts to imitate/simulate/approximate a group of percussionists, each playing a single instrument. It will be much easier to play a samba beat effectively if you've played surdo, repenique, tambourim, agogo, etc. You're not just playing the rhythms on drum set, but you're appropriating the general sound - playing surdo parts on bass drum, tambourim rhythms as a crossed-stick on snare drum, etc. I don't have the Ameen/Goines book (I SHOULD, but I don't :-/) - but one nice thing about the Malabe and DaFonseca texts is that they do investigate the traditional instruments used to play these styles of music. Now...the next question is, do we want to stir it up and discuss whether the Brazilian grooves like samba and baiâo (etc.) actually should be described as "Latin" grooves? As has been noted earlier in the thread, these are distinct traditions - common roots, to be sure, but different cultures and musics. BTW, just out of curiosity - does anyone here know how to play a socagroove? It's a Caribbean style, commonly used in steel band music. I'm just curious to see how well-known it is amongst the Cafe participants... |
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"Less is more." "Play for the song." "Smaller setups make you more creative." Come on, folks - get past the bumper sticker slogans and THINK. Take some responsibility for your creative choices.
Stop hiding behind tiresome platitudes.
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felix
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first class all the way :-)
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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2002, 11:56 AM » |
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I've heard of a soca and probably practiced a pattern or two. I'd have to dig.
Just as long as you don't have to play a TANGO!
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Sonor, The Drummers Drum
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felix
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first class all the way :-)
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2002, 12:01 PM » |
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I'm by no means latin and I really don't play latin music but I have the most fun with baiones (can't spell it) and jazz samba's. I also like a songo pattern that I play and I have derived a "punk" or "pig" latin beat as I call it that fits into about anything!
Pig latin patterns...that's funny.
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Sonor, The Drummers Drum
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Dwarf
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« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2002, 01:24 PM » |
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About ten years ago I worked stage at a local carribean festival and most of the music was Soca. For about a month afterwards I was dreaming Soca grooves. Luckily I'm over it now But if asked to I could probably manage something that wasn't too out of place. -- Rob |
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Dwarf
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« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2002, 01:34 PM » |
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Hey Felix, pig latin beats - that's funny. You must be Jewish  You don't like Tangoes (is this the right plural for tango?) - I've always found a tango to be like playing a march and I'm always surprised to see people dance to it. I always want to start playing march stuff during tangoes -- Rob |
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James Walker
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« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2002, 01:55 PM » |
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Tango, eh? Ever check out the music of Astor Piazzolla? http://www.piazzolla.org/... very hip stuff, IMHO. It goes well beyond what one usually thinks of at the mention of the word "tango," which often amounts to little more than: "....ba-RUMPH!!...da...da...da......ba-RUMPFH!!...da-da-da-daaaaaa-da..." |
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"Less is more." "Play for the song." "Smaller setups make you more creative." Come on, folks - get past the bumper sticker slogans and THINK. Take some responsibility for your creative choices.
Stop hiding behind tiresome platitudes.
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SheldonWhite
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« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2002, 02:01 PM » |
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Yeah, I was in a band that did a lot of Socas and Calypsos. There are a lot of variations but the basic beat is pretty simple.
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James Walker
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« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2002, 02:16 PM » |
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Interesting...so many other Caribbean and South American beats have become "standard repertoire" for drummers in the U.S., maybe it's just my imagination, but generally, soca and calypso grooves haven't made it out beyond Caribbean music, the way samba, baião, the various Afro-Cuban beats, etc., have. Maybe it has already, and I've just missed it.
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"Less is more." "Play for the song." "Smaller setups make you more creative." Come on, folks - get past the bumper sticker slogans and THINK. Take some responsibility for your creative choices.
Stop hiding behind tiresome platitudes.
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SheldonWhite
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« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2002, 07:30 PM » |
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Just my opinion, but Calypso (which is the foundation of Soca) doesn't have the rhythmic depth as, say, Son Montuno, Samba, Guaguanco or Mozambique. It is also generally presented as an unvarying dance music, where as 'Salsa' tunes frequently are orchestrated with a lot of harmonic and rhythmic variation. Perhaps Calypso never had the equivalents of Eddie Palmieri, Tito Puente, Dizzy Gillespie or Cal Tjader, who brought other Latin musics to the attention of the general public and other musicians. They found ways to merge Latin style into the stream of other popular musics.
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felix
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first class all the way :-)
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« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2002, 04:49 AM » |
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I know, it is about as authentic as I get.
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Sonor, The Drummers Drum
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