First, I have to make a distinction between reading drum notation and rhythm to reading melody lines and being able to sing the notes by ear. I can do the former but I'm not so great at the latter. I'm working on it.

I can't imagine not knowing how to read music. I find myself thinking notation when I play or when I hear other drummers play. If I'm asked to play a part by ear but I can't nail it in the first couple tries, I'll mentally notate it in my head and count it out.

I know a very good drummer whose group comes to town about three times a year. We always hang out and talk drums like geeks, but he can't read or write. What a shame, because he has so much to offer but he has limited ways to communicate it.

A couple of quick things (I've started three different times to post something to this thread, but each time I put my fingers to the keyboard it turns into another one of my "War And Peace" tomes...)

As Gaddabout mentioned, notating music is a means of communicating musical ideas.  Music existed before music notation existed, and the ability to read isn't a prerequisite for being able to make music, but it makes it much easier communicate ideas from one musician to another, assuming that both are able to read and write using the same system.  The "standard" notation system not the only way to communicate ideas, tho - check out the steel band arrangements down in Trinidad to see just how sophisticated and complex music can be even when taught via the rote method.  (I'd also mention that musicians such as those who play in the steel bands in Trinidad, who learn purely via the rote method and "by ear," usually - in my experience, YMMV - have very good memorization and aural skills.)  

The need for reading skills varies (obviously) depending what kind of music one is playing, and in what traditions.  Most of the indigenous musics of the world don't use European "classical" notation, but they have their own techniques for communicating musical ideas from one person to another.  (The type of notation we're discussing here has its limitations as well - after a hundred years of jazz, nobody has come up with a better way of notating swung eighth notes than writing "regular" eighth notes and printing the word "swing" at the top of the page.)

Many of the gigs I do which involve a percussionist are pop, jazz, or folk oriented, where the percussionist is given relatively broad latitude to create his own "part".  Any notation on the gig would consist of a lead sheet at most, not a fully notated part.  For these gigs, reading skills (or the lack thereof) are often irrelevant.

For orchestral work, where the exact rhythms, dynamics, and instruments are specified by the arranger, or for movie or commercial "jingle" sessions, some ability to read standard notation is a prerequisite.  In orchestral and session work, the speed with which the arranger/composer communicates the information to the player is paramount, whether one is paying musicians for rehearsal time or paying a studio for time - and notated music is excellent for communicating ideas quickly.  Time is money, and if you can get the music down on tape more quickly because you can read, that makes you much more marketable as a session musician.

Also, when preparing notated (i.e., non-improvised) music, such as a Bach sonata on marimba or a rudimental snare drum solo, the better one can read, the less time one will have to spend practicing the material.  Ideally, if a musician ever achieved perfection as a sight reader, he'd never have to practice any piece he played - he'd just put the music on the stand and read.  Notation also sets music in a fixed form, rather than subjecting it to the vagueries of each musicians' memory or the oral tradition.  Certain types of music require that sort of specificity - imagine how much Beethoven's symphonies would have changed (evolved? devolved?) over the years if the parts had been passed down from player to player, from orchestra to orchestra, one generation to the next, via the rote method.

Bottom line?  I know a good number of percussionists and drummers who either aren't fluent readers, or who in some cases can't read at all (or don't need to for their gigs), who work steadily.  Personally, tho, I've benefitted professionally (and practically) by being able to read standard music notation.  As always, YMMV...

I feel that it is something that should be learned by ALL musicians that are serious enough to study the instrument they play.  Yes, there are many successful musicians that are incredible players that can not read(i.e. Dennis Chambers) but i think that is a poor excuse not to learn something.  Notation is a tool that is extremely useful to musicians of all levels, but like any tool, it is not always the best tool for the job.  For example, playing by rote is the best way on certain occasions.   Bottom line, don't limit yourself by not learning something this valuable.

Bill,

Another approach that will help your reading skills is to transcribe, and then notate yourself, drum beats (fills, etc.).  It's the same translation that happens when you're reading - realizing the notated music - just in the opposite direction.  Start with beats and fills that you're comfortable with, and figure out how they are notated.  Later on, you can repeat the process with other drummers' recordings.

Another technique is to read rhythms on sight, just speaking/singing them without playing.  This is something you can do on the subway - either silently, or "out loud" if you want people to leave you alone!    - eventually you start to get fluent in recognizing entire rhythms when you're reading, rather than just going on a note-to-note basis, and when you start seeing things in larger groups, your reading will improve tremendously.

Wow...Dennis Chambers cant read (I heard that Buddy coul'nt either...i dont know if this is correct though)

I have been in two minds about reading for years.....Most musicians that I had played with that could read seemed to be fused to the chart...they lacted that flowability and they tended to fear solos. Me....well, I started reading about four years ago and it has been very very hard because its like you can drive a car but you can only read the word "four wheeled transport". Its frustrating that the only stuff I can read is Basic Rock/Jazz and latin when ive been playing these styles for at least 16 yrs. If I was to go back in time it is something I would do along with drumming by ear as in just four short years of being able to read to my limited degree, I have learnt a lot, and what helps is being able to transcribe ideas and that in itself is worth it alone.

I do wish there was some standardisation.......About two years ago I got Ed Roscettis..Odd Meter book (hope ive spelt his name right....sorry if I havnt) and it was full of great stuff but I couldnt get the Odd way he Bunched the notes......thinking it was me (and it still could be) I asked a drummer that is a good reader about this book and he couldnt get on with it. It is however a great great book so I would check it out if you can.....I do ask Mr. Roscetti to describe passages in the way I understand and he has been very helpful.

But.....I know ive go lots to learn about reading still....

Clear,
I don't know for 100% fact, but I feel pretty positive that Buddy could read.  Dennis can not.  I am sure that he has some level of understanding, as he has been in the business for many years, but you can't really call him a reader.  He's lucky and blessed to have the ear and understanding of music he does.

I don't actually own the book you speak of, but took some classes with Ed.  He's a GREAT guy, and seems to be one of those cats that just knows everything, and everybody!!  He actually auditioned for Zappa, and made it down to just him and the other guy, Wackerman was the other guy and got the gig.  Anyway, I can't really comment on his book.  However, ther is a PAS standard to drumset notation, and slowly it is just becoming the standard. It will just take time for people to stop writing the notes wherever they want to.  If you like, I can explain the notation, although I'm sure Bart, or some of the other guys can as well.

James,
That's right, i have heard that about Buddy too.  I just assumed it was because he didn't like rehearsing or didn't want to make time for it.  But, now that i think about it, I've also heard that he didn't read.

You're right that the level Dennis is at can be attained.  I just mean that, IMHO, he is lucky to have be at that level, and be that successful without reading.  Reading is very important for independant drummers, and to have such success with so many different people, it is quite lucky and amazing that he is there without the ability to read a chart.  Anyway, my point was that it worked for him, but the chances are slim that it will work for you(you meaning whoever is reading this, not James directly)

I was actually refering to what the teachers at Musician's Institute told me.  For some reason I am drawing a blank on the true specifics of it, but it is a standard way of notating the basic kit.  This includes kick, snare, high tom, med tom, low tom, second kick, hh(open or closed), hh w/foot, crash cymbal, ride cymbal(ride bell).  If you count these you get 11 voices.  There are 5 lines and 4 spaces on a staff, but there are 6 spaces if you count what is normally D4 and G5 on a treble clef, so that makes the 11 voices.  

Now, do i think this is important?  Yes, i do.  A standard notation is important for communication.  True, most of the time a drummer will not read a true drum chart, in fact if he gets a chart at all it might be either a lead sheet or the bass chart.  I think the standard notation is more important for method books, etc.  

I don't know how influential PAS is/would be in creating a standard.  It seems many drummers don't know the value of PAS.  But, i think they would defintely have SOME level of influence.  We all know the PAS rudiments.  Plus, the PAS seems to be more important in the educational side of percussion, so you would have the trickle-down effect.  

IM still trying to lift my jaw off the floor......Dennis doesnt read......Incredible (sorry for repeating myself but im so amazed and humbled in one)

Just shows you how good a gifted person can become without a chart..

Cant remember where I read it about Buddy but...yep...the master didnt need the notes....

Phil Collins has really only started on the reading path (had his own way to transcribe things)

I cant work out what all this proves but in no way do I view a drummer as a lesser musician just because he draws a blank with a chart in front of him.

If he's got the tech, flair and feel.....in my book..he's just qualified.

Chart or NO chart

There must be tons of top draw drummers that couldnt read a note..

I agree Bartman, I was just being amazed at the level Dennis plays at and he doesn't read(what a player and what a memory).
Trying not to repeat myself, some kind of standardization would be most welcome when it comes to drumming. Ive met with many drummers that have their own take on what and how to bunch notes..it does become confusing. It is also frustraighting to only be able to read realitivly simple passages when my own level of playing is far higher....this I feel is a prime example of why it is important to read when you first start to take up the drums. Im left with an imbalance that can be a hindrance, but with the little I know about charts now, it has indeed opened up things that I would of found difficult to grasp in the first place.

Well... I wont be commenting everything everyone said, there's much I agree and much I disagree.

In my opinion reading music is very very important in a lot of ways, first, as already have been said, to preserve the music as the years goes by, I also thinks it is really important to write down good ideas and to study books, cause its not all the time that you have a good register of that drummer you like, and at last I think its also a lot important in the studio when recording, first when you have to work with someone you never worked before and never seen, and second, to remember certain parts.

But sometimes happens to me that if I rely only in reading music (when recording with someone you never worked) without being able to "let it go" the groove does not get too strong... Its only with me or this happens to you too  

Here are some pros to reading music
1) you can write it
2) you can read other people's ideas
3) you can play other people's music
4) it broadens your ability to play in certain circumstances
5) it's actually fun to read it and hear it without having to sit and  play it (if you want) -- particularly for me rhythm -- I couldn't look at a sheet of music and hum the notes if I wanted -- but I could read the rhythm
6)you can communicate in a whole different way
7)you can participate in musical experiences that otherwise you might not have

Here are some cons:
1)it takes some practice
2)it's frustrating when you're like "What in the heck is that?"

And I don't think to be a great musician you have to read music. But, I think it is well worth the effort for what it pays back.  

I would just like to hear one good reason to NOT learn how to read!

Nah ... it only does that if you let it!

Perfect example ... Big Band drummers are taught to check out the music charts and then let it go; put the music away.

Music notation is just a road map. When using a map to look for the best route to your grandma's house ... you just figure it out and put the map away. You don't sit there and keep your nose in the pages while trying to drive do you? You might look down occasionally to make sure you are on the right path ... but 99.9% of the trip is spent with your eyes on the road, watching your surroundings, looking out for other cars, checking out the road signs, etc. Reading music is no different.

If you're not a very good read ... sure, it could be a hindrance because you're slow. Picture a 3 year-old trying to read a road map and give you directions!

Don't be lazy! Learn to read ... you'll be a better musician for it ... and you'll stop whining about all the negatives of reading music. Only the people who can't read or don't read very well complain or think it's a bad idea. Some things in life you just have to work for ... ya know?!

Ahhh ... I feel better.

Oh I know you were just kidding around. I wasn't directing anything to you ... but merely wanted to address the countless excuses and negative views of reading music. I know people just like you do ... who can't play unless it's written out or on paper. In that case, they aren't going to need to be creative anyway because they are just reading what's on the page. They might have some creative interpretations with what's written ... which is very cool ... but it's not like they are improvising. If it's written, then you are supposed to read what's there ... unless the genre requires that add to or subtract from what's written. Sometimes the written music is just a guide to give you an idea ... such as a transcribed jazz solo within a big band.

If people can't play outside of the written music ... then it's not READING the music that is the problem ... it's them!

All of this is like saying "guns kill people" therefore "guns are bad". That is just silly. So applying to music, reading music is not bad ... it's when people use it as a crutch and never truly master their instrument by being able to freely express themselves on it ... that's what's bad.

Truly great musicians can read music, write music, speak music ... and fully express the music that is in them. I don't care if you name the most famous drummer in the world ... if he/she can't read/write music ... they are only operating at 80% of their full potential.

If you can only speak Spanish, but can't read or write it ... do you really KNOW the Spanish language? Sure, you can exist in a culture that uses this language, but you are limited on what you can do. You'd basically be a blind, illiterate, Spanish speaking individual.
Now ... put that in your pipe and smoke it!

I think its somewhat feasible.  Its good to have a basic understanding of note values and how things should be played.  I use to play with a guitarist and he would just play something 2 times(4/4 pattern)which would in essence really be 4 times for me.  It just amazes me too on some of the guess work, or feel of where a value should be played.  I think it brings the playing to a higher level if you know values and so forth.

Since I started learning how to read quarters and such in the 1st grade with piano I really never knew music without notation.  Then the baritone in 5th grade...oh THAT WAS soooooooooo fun .  NOT!  I never knew music without notation.

I started really getting into drum lessons at about 15 and boom, right to the books.

I try to read something every practice session...and then we do do charts quite a bit in our band these days, but I never found charts restrictive...just a roadmap.  My brain and body is what restricts me musically.

I can't find anything wrong with reading...but I don't frigging read on a gig.  That is ridiculous for what I do.
I basically learned how to subdivide, play hip patterns- then I "memorize" the technique and do theme and variations of those patterns, licks whatever.