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Author Topic: Stick grips (poll)  (Read 3592 times)
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Bart Elliott
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« on: January 01, 2002, 06:31 PM »

Knowing that there are numerous variations of the two most popular stick grips, please just summarize what you use. This is excluding French grip and German grip because they can be categorized as a form of Matched grip based on how the stick lies in the hand, etc.
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rlhubley
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« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2002, 11:07 AM »

I use traditional grip for the bulk of my playing.  Occaisionally I'll use matched grip to force me to calm down my left hand!!   Grin
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2002, 03:52 PM »

I'm a traditional guy. I guess it's an ego thing. I never did like the image of the unschooled rocker. But I do use matched for a couple things, primarily for cross-sticks and anything that requires a lot of rimshots. Sometimes I'll use matched if, for whatever reason, I'm playing fast paradiddles; I don't know why, though, because I can definately play more "stuff" with traditional grip.
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drumsonly2002
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2002, 06:13 PM »

I played matched for over 20 years. A month ago, I just got tired of matched, so switched to traditional. I love the feel of traditional, it seems like a natural way to play. Like it so much I'm practicing traditional with my right hand also. Practicing to be ambidexterous. That way all grips both hands can be used. Was watching some old jazz drummers on video, and some played traditional both hands. I started drumming as a left handed player, someone told me it was wrong, so I switched to right handed playing. Now, after 20 years, I'm switching back to left. I get to practice while I'm at my job so I can spend a few hours a day with the different grips. I carry sticks with me almost every where I go, always a set in the van. Comes handy especially in traffic jams or long trips.
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Jason00
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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2002, 09:47 AM »

I've read about the French grip, but what is the German grip?

JB
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sidereal
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2002, 09:49 AM »

I've messed around with traditional, but I play matched grip exclusively with sticks (of course including French, German, American). I'm starting to teach myself brush technique with Clayton Cameron's help on videotape and I've been using traditional grip for that since I'm fairly comfortable with it. It feels much more natural to me to play bushes with traditional grip.
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2002, 10:48 AM »

Quote
I've read about the French grip, but what is the German grip?
German grip is basically most like the American grip, except the palms of the hands are flattened out so they are parallel to the floor.
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groovsmyth
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2002, 07:05 PM »

I'm a hideous freak! Look away from me! Embarrassed

I started out with traditional grip with an air of  snobbishness. After all, it's the "secret handshake" of real drummers isn't it?

For the first 5 years that's all I used. (Avoiding the "neanderthal" uneducated rocker stigma)
When I got into a drum corps, I discovered I was an oddity. Everyone else could lift his left stick to a perfect vertical by just bending the wrist. Even with my elbow pointing inward and ridiculous contortions the most I could manage was about 60 degrees. No amount of stretching helped. Short tendons? Weird anatomy? I still don't know. I decided I would be a matched grip player. The left hand took a lot of work to mirror the right, and the previously mentioned stigma was tough in the early years, but I discovered that it was possible to play with finesse using matched grip.

I was helped along inadvertantly in my ambidextrous quest. I fell on some icy stairs at school and broke my right hand requiring surgical pinning. I learned to write (draw words) with my left hand while my right hand healed. After that, I went to great lengths not only to strengthen the left hand, but to educate it in subtle movement. I decided to learn something from scratch with my left hand that my right hand hadn't even tried before. I learned how to crack a bull whip, southpaw. The neighbors not only had to listen to my drumming, but were treated to endless hours of a whip cracking. (Got teased as an aspiring sadist Shocked )

Have you ever said something inane when meeting a celebrity? I was standing near some stairs quite a while after a concert had ended, and to my complete surprise, I turned around finding myself face-to-face with Buddy Rich. I put out my right hand and shook his hand while stammering, "Could you bless my left hand?"  In Buddy fashion he said ... "uhhhhh, it's blessed."

Well, my left hand isn't quite as "natural" looking as my right hand holding a stick, but it does a fair approximation finally. And more importantly, the sound of the strokes has approached even-ness.

I have to agree with sidereal on traditional brush playing especially with the left-handed stirring swish being sort of made for traditional grip. I don't use metal brushes though, with a bonafide brush technique, which is a weakness falling short of well-roundedness. I often use a pair of Blasticks in my left hand and a Vater version of the 'cool rod' in my right hand because it sounds good on cymbal work. Fills on the toms are not noticeably uneven, but if I want a snare roll I do a quick transfer of a Blastick to the right hand.

To end this rambling post, I gotta tell ya. I tried responding to the poll several times, trying to check "matched grip only" but it wouldn't take my vote. I can't stand the stigma!  Cry


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felix
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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2002, 05:11 AM »

What a great thread!

I'm matched and I get by quite nicely...thank you!

I have had so many lessons from great players and they usually said stay with matched.  My traditional grip SUCKS in my left hand, I can't do it.  I can do it great in my right hand but it seems stupid so I don't do it at all.

Plus I always learned that getting around a big kit was a pain playing traditional.  I don't know or care really.  I also learned that traditional was just a throw back from parade drumming with the dog gone snare tilted at a funny angle.

I sometimes envy really good traditional players but when I look at my style objectively- I think I have successfully taken what I like about drumming from rock and jazz genres and incorporated it into playing matched/my style.  To me, the two styles really need each other to sound "hip"...so that is what I've done.  Tradtional rock and jazz to me are great yes, but sound better fused.  JMHO
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tsippel
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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2002, 06:19 AM »

The more "stuff" I add to my left (above my Hi-hat) the more I use the matched grip,
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rlhubley
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« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2002, 07:03 AM »

I have always thought that traditional grip is kind of dumb.  It was invented for the guys playing the old snares with the slings, and just has been brought to the kit from there.  Matched grip simply DOES make more sense.


BUT, i play traditional grip ALMOST exclusively.  I used to play trad, only when playing jazz, and played matched the rest of the time, which was MOST of the time.   For the past year and a half, I've been living in an apt, and don't get much access to a kit, outside of rehearsals and at gigs.  THEREFORE, my practice is mainly done on a pad.  For me, trad grip is just more comfortable on a pad(unless you use a stand).  Matched on a pad always felt awkward to me, and since I've known trad  grip for many years, it just felt naturaul.  So, the transition just kind of occured, and now I love playing trad.
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2002, 08:49 AM »

Quote
I have always thought that traditional grip is kind of dumb.  It was invented for the guys playing the old snares with the slings, and just has been brought to the kit from there.  Matched grip simply DOES make more sense.
The only problem I have with people using Traditional grip is when they don't angle their drums to accommodate the grip. You mention how/why Traditional grip was invented, which is correct. If you play Traditional grip and don't slant your snare drum (for example), then the tip of the left stick will not hit the drumhead the same as the right stick, and therefore will NOT sound the same.

When I was into Drum Corps and marching band, I noticed that the drums were NOT slanted when the snare drummers used Traditional grip.

There's only two ways to make Traditional grip really work properly if you don't slant your drum.
  • Raise the drum high enough so that the left stick is parallel to the drumhead when in "resting position". Drumlines typically don't do this because everyone is a different height, and they want the snares to look uniform ... so it's low on some people and really high on others.
  • To contort your body. This can be anything from putting a un-natural angle in your left arm/wrist or leaning down to the left so that your left stick is parallel to the playing surface when in a resting position.
Almost EVERY professional drumline instructor that I've ever seen (I can mention names if I need to), who plays Traditional grip, would walk up to the snare drum which is mounted parallel to the ground  .... and hunch over to the left to play. WHAT IS UP WITH THAT!!!

All of this goes to show that it is IMPOSSIBLE to stand/sit upstraight and have the sticks strike the drum equally when using Traditional grip with a drum that is NOT slanted properly. God didn't make our bodies to do this, so why force it? IF you have to contort your body to use Traditional grip, please do yourself a favor and make some adjustments to the angle of your drums.  Smiley
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
rlhubley
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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2002, 09:11 AM »

100% AGREED

I have experimented.....

                                        ....with different angles of my snare.  I have found that tilted downward works best for me.    Most trad grip guys tilt downward from the left.  After doing that for a while, and having problems with consistent rimshots, i noticed Steve Smith tilted his snare more downward from his body, but, just SLIGHTLY from the left.  I started tilting in this manner a few weeks ago, and I am LOVIN' IT!!
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2002, 09:23 AM »

Quote
i noticed Steve Smith tilted his snare more downward from his body, but, just SLIGHTLY from the left.
Not to get off topic, but Steve Smith has GOT to be the most relaxed, fluid drummer on the planet these days! I am TOTALLY blown away how much he has grown over the decades. He's my hero for sure!  Cool
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
rlhubley
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« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2002, 10:03 AM »

aww, shucks.  Let's start a topic on essential S. Smith stuff, he's one of my hero's too!
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« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2002, 08:48 PM »

Good point about the drums in drum corps not being slanted, Bart.  A couple of drumlines have actually been slanting their drums in the last year or two to allow the left havd to be more relaxed.  The only two that I know of are Santa Clara Vanguard in the DCI circuit and Music City Mystique in WGI.
--adam--
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Gaddabout
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« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2002, 09:10 PM »

Quote
The only two that I know of are Santa Clara Vanguard
--adam--

And heaven knows you have to be absolutely relaxed for 10 snare drummers to cleanly play press rolls. Tongue

Just kidding, for those Vanguard people out there. Just a little ribbin' from a die-hard Blue Devil fan.
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felix
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« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2002, 08:25 AM »

Matched, 3rd joint fulcrum, with elbow moeller technique for maximum power  Grin
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Dark Drummer
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« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2002, 07:59 PM »

my left hand is really weak so i usually play matched but sometimes (depening on the song) ill play reversed traditional (for lack of a better word) its like tradition but what u do with ur left hadn is done with ur right....sounds wierd but its diff and thats what i go for
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Tony
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« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2002, 07:16 AM »

I personally play matched, it was what I was taught and how I've played 20+ years.  However, the recent popularity of Freddie Gruber as "Teacher to the Stars" has made me think about a change.  For those of you who don't know, Freddie is a drum guru that has completely revamped Dave Weckl, Neil Peart and dare I say, Steve Smith, who has studied with him for years, to name a few.  All of these players have either switched to or incorporated traditional grip into their playing full time.  Watch the new series of instructional tapes by Weckl or the Neil Peart video and you can learn a great deal more about Freddie and his organic approach to the drums.  

And Bartman, it was Steve Smith's fluidity in playing during the Burning for Buddy sessions that caught Neil's attention and led to the recomendation from Steve to check Freddie out  Smiley
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The techniques, though they play an important role in the early stage, should not be too restrictive, complex or mechanical. If we cling to them, we will become bound by their limitation.  Any technique, however worthy and desirable, becomes a disease when the mind is obsessed with it.
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