Do I get put in a box?

No. But I have found myself in the dog house from time to time!
Thank you, I'll be here all week!

I, like drumlooney, often find myself being the only musician in the band that really reads/writes music ... and has a grasp of music theory. I always helping to fix harmonic discrepancies within the band, as well as giving arrangement direction, etc.

I actually do get put in a box, usually by people who don't know me. There is a strong stereotype that suggests that "drummers" don't know anything about music. I get the whole "be a good little Neanderthal  and stay seated behind your drums please." I always enjoy complying ... only later to be:


It's sad, but it's only then that we drummers get the respect that any musician should get. Not special treatment, but at least an equal. There are so many pre-judgments made ... all based on the instrument you play. Let's not be guilty of the same thing by labeling and judging others based on their instrument of choice.

When people ask what you do, tell them you are a musician; a musician who happens to play drums and/or percussion.

wow, I didn't think this woul raise such a commotion. I agree, there is no type of person who is a "drummer" none who are guitarists and as such are assholes. It just depends on what you behave like. I think that it is always better to treat people with respect, no matter what they play. For all you know, they could kick ass at your instrument too and you just don't know it. I think its just that guitarist maybe consider their instrument to be more important in the music asit is the instrument responsible for most things.

Just for the record, the guitarist apologised for his comments, said that drums are a @$%# hard instrument to play and respect to all those who can play them. He just beleives musician is someone who doesn't just play, but thinks outside their own instrument. He just said it in a bad way i guess.

Whats the moral kids? Don't stereotype people! If you do you may find yourself on the receiving end, and after reading his mail I know I was guilty of stereotyping him back, which I shouldn't have.

Misenko.

Anyone who thinks Buddy Rich, Steve Gadd, Vinnie Colaiuta, Joe Morello, Duffy Jackson, Jack Dejohnette, Grady Tate, Art Blakey, Harvey Mason, Jeff Hamilton, Peter Erskine, etc., etc., are not musicians is deaf.

As for me, well, I'll leave that to the discretion of the listener.

As for being put in a box, only between sunrise and sunset!  

Ratamatatt

Even Old Chap has heard of some of the names on Ratamatatt's list!!

Let us look, briefly, at "my" instrument.  From Henry VIII through Elizabeth I at least, the Court Timpanist was the highest paid member of the court band (Fifteen shillings a year which was a FORTUNE in the 14th century.  No doubt it reflected their role in war: they marched at the HEAD of the army and the mortality rate was accordingly extremely high but nonetheless their part in important music was acknowledged even then.

The timpani came into their own in the 19th century with the growth of symphony orchestras worldwide and, as now, they produced their fair crop of great players.

In his wonderful lectures to the Royal College of Organists in 1908 one of those great timpanists (C. Gordon Cleather) remarked that the timpanist of the La Scala Orchestra in Milan was, in 1908, the highest paid member of the orchestra.  Interestingly, the two current co-principal timpanists of La Scala are English.

In England, where Cleather was calling for a percussion school in those lectures, they produced some truly great players such as James Bradshaw and Wilhelm Gezink (of Hungarian birth but Halle's timpanist in his orchestra and regarded by some as the greatest timpanist of all).

And in our more modern age we have Saul Goodman (whose instructional books are still well worth studying) and players like the late Cloyd Duff, Mitchell Peters and Mr Cherry in the Dallas Orchestra (whose first performance I believe was aged six playing the glockenspiel)...and that's just to mention some Americans.  That is not to mention Petr Sprunk in the Czech Philharmonic (anyone seriously interested in the instrument should catch his playing in Karel Ancerl's recordings with the orchestra in the 1950's or 1960's) nor is it to mention Werner Tharichen whom Furtwangler regarded as the finest timpanist he had ever heard.

Nor is it to mention the recently retired Kurt-Hans Goedicke in the London Symphony Orchestra (the smoothest roll I know) and the man who recorded the Imperial March for the Star Wars soundtrack (and that's NOT a walkover) nor the lately deceased Alan Taylor from the Royal Opera House Orchestra, London (the slowest but most beautiful roll I know) who had perfect pitch and whose intonation was accordingly rather good.

Nor is it to mention Sibelius whose favourite instrument the timpani was: a good performance of his seven symphonies is still a benchmark for even a modern player nor is it to mention Franz Lizst who wrote the first symphonic solo for the triangle in his piano concerto and who said of the instrument: "It is capable of turning fire into white heat."

Given the comments of the last two composers I think I am very happy to be called a musician for that is what I am and that, without question, is what my illustrious forbears were as well.

We are also very particular musicians.  With our instruments we have NOWHERE to hide.  

I would suggest that when we "matter" we matter more than all the rest put together.  At least  that's why I came into it.  Yes, I'm still happy to sit through 45 minutes of Tchaik 4 to play cymbals or triangle or bass drum in the finale because take those three away and there AIN'T a finale.


Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
 

I heard a funky fusion tune on the radio (NPR) the other day I think was called "Fix it in The Mix."  This is one of the funniest tunes I've ever heard.  The lyrics were about all of the stereotypes that musicians have for each other ie: "the drummer's great if he could only read music" "that sax player is the best in town if that @$%# solo would just end."  And, each chorus ended with something like: "But it's ok 'cause we can fix it in the mix."

Anyway, musician mutual disrespect is apparently a universal theme.  

Ratamatatt

Most "musicians" who make statements about drummers not being musicians are just ignorant and have low self esteem.  They obviously have serious doubts about their own musicianship, so they feel the need to pick on or insult the "weakest" musician in the band.  I play with a 6 piece band that is fairly succesful, and I end arranging much of our music since I am the only formally trained musician in the group.  I actually understand things like key signatures, changes, counting odd time, etc.  It is so frustrating to me to have someone say that I am not a musician since I am a drummer.  I usually just walk away from a gig with people like that.  

I really sympathise and feel for players who are "put down" because they are behind a drum set.  It's about the only advantage I have in the classical world: at worst we are "equal".

Three years ago I did a short European tour with Swan Lake and Petrushka...it was a "pick up" (freelance) orchestra: I think we pretended to be the Czech Festival Ballet Orchestra.

The two highest paid players on that tour were the timpanist and the harpist and as we did (I think) six Swan Lakes and four Petrushka's that's about right.

B-man knows the timpani is not an instrument to be messed with and I can assure everyone that neither is the harp, particularly in Swan Lake.  

I am genuinely saddened to read that drummers are still put down.  I thought it had mostly ended.

To those who do put down drummers there is an easy answer: "Okay, I'll go then....and leave you to fill in the drum part."

That must apply equally in rock/jazz/swing as it does to the timpanist in Glinka's Overture: Ruslan and Lyudmilla or trillions of other examples we could all think of.  

As I remarked earlier you could take Mr Morello out of Take Five and call it Take Four....and do away with the "non-musician" and the piece of music at the same time.

I've only ever played it once (when I was very much younger) but unless my memory is playing tricks (which is possible) Big Noise from Winetka might, for example, suffer from the lack of a "non musician."

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

I agree with you totally Alan. In the classical world, it seems like violin players here think they're God's gift to music. I'm not saying all, because I know some who are really talented, but still appricate all other instruments in the orchestra (It was more that way in my conservatory years, I do have to admit). I recently played Hindemith's Symphonic Metamorphosis here in New York. Where would you be without the timpani part? Better yet, where would you be without the whole percussion section?

You'd have a lot more G.P.'s, that's for sure.

I think John "Bermuda" Shwartz said it best the last time this question was posed.

"I'm a musician, because that's what it says on my tax returns. Doesen't say "drummer", so I guess that makes me a musician."

Can't argue with sound logic like that.