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Author Topic: Why Stewart Copeland is no longer with "the Doors"  (Read 898 times)
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Snake
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« on: March 25, 2003, 03:51 PM »

Ray Manzarek was just interviewed by a local station and he said Copeland's tempo was "too eratic" and he "lacked [the] mystery" necessary to be the Doors drummer. He also said nobody is asking "where's Stewart," they're asking "Stewart who?"
Sounds to me like somebody doesn't want to be shown up by a better musician in his own band.
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Adam Blevins
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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2003, 04:42 PM »

Stewart Copeland is the man.  His drumming on the Synchronicity album and the live tour changed the way I think about drumming.

Also, I saw him at the 2003 rock and roll hall of fame induction and, while he still played with his signature style, it was even better that he used to play.  I just find it amazing that someone of his calibre is still imroving his personal style.

Who the hell is ANYBODY (even the Doors) to say those things about Stewart?  They are just wrong!  Plain and simple.

--adam--
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Jeff
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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2003, 05:48 PM »

Stewart Copeland is a champion.
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orazio
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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2003, 06:10 PM »

Stewart is an adequate rock drummer, nothing more, nothing less.
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tkitna
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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2003, 08:15 PM »

He's better than I'll ever be but he does come across as an @sshole. IMO.
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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2003, 09:32 PM »

Stewart is an adequate rock drummer, nothing more, nothing less.

Orazio, I totally disagree. If you're basing your judgment on his physical ability, maybe. But if you look at the innovativeness of his style, and - even more significant - the influence he has had, I think you're way off base.

I'm not talking about his chops - I'm not sure I've ever heard him play anything faster than a 16th note. But the CHOICES he made - the rhythms and drum parts he came up with - I can think of very few drummers with as distinctive an approach to the instrument. I literally consider the first time I heard a Police album to be a life-changing event, much as I do the first time I heard Steve Gadd. To me, he is as influential and distinctive a drummer as Gadd, Bozzio, Bonham, or Williams. I hear a major Copeland influence in many drummers' styles, particularly Vinnie Colaiuta. I think Vinnie is a MUCH better drummer, but I think even he owes a debt to Stewart.

From all reports, Stewart does not sound like the kind of guy I'd want to invite to my house for a barbeque. But I cannot overlook his contribution to drumming.

An "adequate rock drummer"? The drummer for REO Speedwagon was an "adequate rock drummer." Stewart is a milestone in the history of pop/rock drumming. At least that's my take. YMMV.
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tkitna
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« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2003, 11:46 PM »

Quote
An "adequate rock drummer"? The drummer for REO Speedwagon was an "adequate rock drummer." Stewart is a milestone in the history of pop/rock drumming. At least that's my take. YMMV

I dont know Mr.A? I saw Alan Gratzer live with REO and thought he was pretty good. Of course I base everything off of my skills which means The Clanging Monkey with the cymbals looks adequate. LOL.
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irishthump
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« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2003, 03:11 AM »

I was never a huge Copeland fan.
I always found (and I don't want to argue with ANYONE about this!) that his playing was a little "busy" for my tastes. That's just me. But I can't argue that he has had a massive influence on drumming in general, his chops, taste, feel and individual voice make him VERY unique. And that's a HUGE achievment.  But I think his style is'nt suited to the doors, he is an upfront player. When playing with the Police he had a lot of space to work with. I just don't think he would have had that kind of latitude in the Doors.
Just my $0.02  

PS - but he also comes across as an a**hole.
Sorry, Stewart!!!
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« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2003, 03:12 AM »

I would certainly classify Copeland a cut or two above the average drummer in style, technique and innovation, esp. his cymbal work.

That being said, I wouldn't want to invite him to my BBQ, either!

BTW, Alan Gratzer with REO -- the way he (used to?) wear those gloves was just too cool. lol

Oh, speaking of Mr. Ray's less than kind remarks, here's an old link to a John Densmore article in which he's  discussed.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020708&s=densmore

-bruce
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felix
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« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2003, 06:35 AM »

I'd invite him to my barbecue.

My friend saw him play the rock n roll hall of fame and he said his timing was great.

I would have to say Stu is the man, very influential to our craft.
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« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2003, 06:48 AM »

He's better than I'll ever be but he does come across as an @sshole. IMO.

No ... he doesn't just come across as one ... he IS one!!!

The music business is 90% personality. If you're a jerk but can play well, no one will want to work with you; period. The only way Stewart will find work is to do his own projects. Anyone ever notice that this is what he's been doing that last few decades? There you go.
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« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2003, 06:59 AM »

Stewart is an adequate rock drummer, nothing more, nothing less.

You have got to be kidding us!

Stewart Copeland is as innovative and influential as they come.

He is a massive drumming influence on those that followed him as well as his peers throughout. His use of splash cymbals and ska and reggae grooves in a rock setting were revolutionary.

To call him an adequate rock drummer, nothing more, nothing less is akin to calling Julius
Erving (Dr. J) an adequate basketball player, nothing more, nothing less.

He may not be the best that ever was or is, but he is definitely more than adequate.

His personality might be lacking but his drumming isn't.
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orazio
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« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2003, 07:46 AM »

 When i used the word 'adequate' i simply meant that he was 'qualified to satisfy a requirement'. And Stewert did just that, i love The Police and i have most of their albums (and his drumming approach for the music was the correct choice)... It would be interesting to hear him play in other genre's just to see how he would approach the music.
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Tony
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« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2003, 08:12 AM »

Stewart Copeland is definitel an influential drummer and much more then adequate in my book.  As for being an A$$, I've heard it from several folks, but my one meeting with him was pretty cool.  Back in the mid 80's he was in Frank's Drum Shop in Chicago and I talked with him as a nervous 17 year old.  He was very nice and took the time to answer my questions.
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Christopher
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« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2003, 08:18 AM »

Stewart Copeland is definitel an influential drummer and much more then adequate in my book.  As for being an A$$, I've heard it from several folks, but my one meeting with him was pretty cool.  Back in the mid 80's he was in Frank's Drum Shop in Chicago and I talked with him as a nervous 17 year old.  He was very nice and took the time to answer my questions.

That's interesting that you say that Tony. I had a similar experience with Dave Weckl. I met him when I was in my early twenties after a clinic and he was nice as could be. I have heard allot of people say things about him that are less then complimentary about his personality. I thought he was a great guy.
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« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2003, 08:18 AM »

I've also heard a few people say that his style is SO unique and to the forefront that he really has no place in today's music. i.e. - he would find it hard to find a band which suits his style.

What do you guys think?
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« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2003, 08:34 AM »

I've also heard a few people say that his style is SO unique and to the forefront that he really has no place in today's music. i.e. - he would find it hard to find a band which suits his style.

What do you guys think?

If he doggedly sticks to that style, yes. I don't know if he would or not. I thought he was an odd choice for the Doors, but I consider him a great musician, so I was interested to hear how he would approach that gig.

It's easy to pigeonhole drummers and assume they can't do anything else. Some are one-trick ponies, but some aren't. I run into that in my own career sometimes, and it's frustrating - people assume because they see me on a rock gig that I can't play jazz, and so on. So I'm not willing to write Stewart off as being a bad fit for other projects unless I hear the proof myself.

I liked how he played on the Animal Logic records with Stanley Clarke. The bass player in my band said they were not good live, and didn't groove with each other. But they sound good on those records.

Who knows? I think more than his playing, his personality might make him a poor choice to try to be "Joe Sideman." Not because he's a jerk - because I have no proof of that - but because he's shown himself to have a very strong, dominating personality, which is not the usual fare for a paid accompanist. Most of the really successful studio guys and touring sidemen also have some SERIOUS people skills. I don't know if Stewart worries about that stuff or not.

Regardless, I think he's an amazing drummer, and am always interested in hearing what he's up to.
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« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2003, 09:49 AM »

In regards to Stewart not being with The Doors:

Originally the report was that Stewart had a biking accident, which kept him from playing. When he was ready to get back at it, the band was planning to keep his "temporary" replacement. Stewart was filing a lawsuit in response to this.

Now, if band is making comments about Stewart not fitting in musically, this is being used as an excuse for their actions to not take him back. This has nothing to do with the original reasons why Stewart wasn't playing.

Please correct if I'm wrong.  Smiley
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Snake
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« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2003, 10:24 AM »

Here's what I heard:
Stewart's membership in the band was equal to Ian Astbury's - he was in, he was their drummer, done deal.  Then Stewart broke his ankle (or wrist, I can't remember) in a bicycle accident.  The Doors delayed their tour to give him time to heal.  Later, they played a couple of gigs in Vegas.  Shortly after that, Stewart was fired.
When Ray was asked about Stewart on the radio yesterday, he mentioned none of this.  He just commented about his "eratic tempo" and "[lack of] mystery" in a very gruff, unhappy tone.  To me, it sounded like he just doesn't like the guy - as a person or a musician.
An interesting side note:
Ray was asked how this whole Doors reunion/recreation came about.  He said he and Robby Kreiger decided it was a good idea after doing the Doors VH1 Storytellers show (with Ian and some other current singers) a year or two ago.  The Cult had just split up and Ian was in LA, so they asked him to join - good timing.  When they asked John Densmore to do it, he said he couldn't because he has tinitus.  He said he actually blew out he ears during the Storytellers show - bad timing.   Undecided
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