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Liverneck
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« on: April 07, 2003, 08:44 AM » |
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Last 6 or 7 years I've been keeping the left hand going on the 3 bar (of the 2:3 tumbao).On the 'and' of two count, the left hand fingers play the cup (or mutted sound) on the conga, while the right hand plays an open tone on the tumba. On the '3' count, the left hand plays a heel (back part of the hand) on the conga and the right hand plays an open tone on the tumba.
This way of playing tumbao comes directly from Alex Acuna, saw him play it at a clinic. I've been doing it ever since.
Anyone else do this while playing tumbao or any other grooves on congas?
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windhorse
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2003, 05:56 AM » |
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After reading your question the other day, I asked Eric - Cuban/Haitian drumming teacher - what Tumbao meant and learned that it's in EVERYTHING! I guess it's a part when you play in a drum group when almost any African, Cuban, Haitian, Jamaican rhythm is played. He showed me the basic hand pattern, and I remembered it from several of the songs we play. I wish I could share all the rhythms we do, but I'm just learning how to read music. Maybe by the end of the summer I could start sharing our music notation if any of you are interested. Eric has a library of music which took years to collect, and he's still collecting it!
Let me know.
Dave
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Ben Bettis
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« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2003, 03:21 PM » |
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Windhorse is correct. Tumbao is the basic conga rhythm. The "original" tumbao doesn't use the low drum; all the open tones are played on the high drum. What youre playing is the basic variation of the original tumbao.
Heres another variation. (Sorry about the confusing "notation". I couldnt figure out another way to do it. The one on the bottom seems to be a lot easier to read.
Heel – toe – slap – toe – heel – toe - open(high drum) - open(high drum) – heel – toe – slap - open(low drum) - open(low drum) – toe - open(high drum) - open(high drum) - repeat
Lh - Lt - Rs - Lt - Lh - Lt - Ro - Ro
Lh - Lt - Rs - Ro - Ro - Lt - Ro- Ro
What you'll end up with is:
_ _ slap _ _ _ high high _ _ slap low low _ high high ......
Pay attention to the second part of this rhythm. That's the part that's different from what you're playing right now.
Yet another traditional rhythm is called guaguanco. (wah-wahn-ko)
right tip - left heel – left tip – right bass tone – left tip – right open tone (low drum) – left tip – right open (high drum) – left heel – left tip – right open (high drum) – left heel – left tip – right open (low drum) – left tip – repeat.
Rt – Lh – Lt - Rb – Lh - Lt – Ro – Lt
Ro – Lh – Lt – Ro – Lh – Lt – Ro – Lt - repeat
What you'll end up with is:
_ _ _ bass _ low _ high _ _ high _ _ low _ ......
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2003, 08:28 PM » |
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Last 6 or 7 years I've been keeping the left hand going on the 3 bar (of the 2:3 tumbao).On the 'and' of two count, the left hand fingers play the cup (or mutted sound) on the conga, while the right hand plays an open tone on the tumba. On the '3' count, the left hand plays a heel (back part of the hand) on the conga and the right hand plays an open tone on the tumba.
This way of playing tumbao comes directly from Alex Acuna, saw him play it at a clinic. I've been doing it ever since.
All Alex is doing is keeping both parts of the Tumbao going. For clarification, the traditional Tumbao is played on two drums by two players; one player on each drum ... conga and tumba. Alex is keeping the conga part going while the tumba plays it's open tones, which makes the groove sound thicker. Most conga players who play both parts of the tumbao will leave out all simultaneous. Also, a common variation is for the conga to play two slaps (AND 2) just before the two open tones on the tumba (AND 3). |
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windhorse
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« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2003, 10:56 AM » |
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Here's the tumbao for guaguanco.  And, here's how it sounds: http://animaldreams.net/cong/Tum.mp3There are several variants to this, and as long as the tone fits in the pocket you can do almost anything to the rest. Here's the Segundo for guaguanco: http://animaldreams.net/cong/seg.mp3 |
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Hollow a log into a drum. It's the space inside that makes the sound. |
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Dusty-Greer
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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2003, 12:27 PM » |
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The way I understand it, tumbao is not a rythym, but a place in a rythym. Specifically the 4. Tumbao can be played like windhorse says in guaguanco. Notice the tone is on the 4. If you play it in rumba columbia, which is 6/8, it's a different pattern, but with the tone still on the 4. If you play tumbao for mambo, it's like the original question says, with tones on 4 and the "and" of 4. From what I understand, there is also a slap on the 2 in most variations of tumbao. I hope this doesen't confuse you too much more than you were to start with
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zaragemca
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2003, 07:42 AM » |
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The word Tumbao,means the style in which a Congero is playing the pattern,I personal have been able to listen differents variations of the Rumba from differents congeros,the Rumba -Columbia is not a 6/8 pattern.Also in the Rumba-Pattern there is something Called the Contra-Conga which many congeros do'nt know.Gerry Zaragemca(Master Percussionist).
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2003, 07:57 AM » |
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The word Tumbao,means the style in which a Congero is playing the pattern,I personal have been able to listen differents variations of the Rumba from differents congeros,the Rumba -Columbia is not a 6/8 pattern.Also in the Rumba-Pattern there is something Called the Contra-Conga which many congeros do'nt know.Gerry Zaragemca(Master Percussionist).
Who said anything about Rumba in 6/8? Why don't you share about the contra conga parts; I believe I know what you are talking about. |
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
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zaragemca
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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2003, 08:08 AM » |
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Dusty-Greer is the one mentioning Rumba-Columbia in 6/8,the Contra-Conga is a second Pattern which was rarely performed in some circles by the rumberos which usully would play the Salidor,Tres-Dos,and Quinto Pattern in Guaguanco(of course with the clave).
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Dusty-Greer
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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2003, 04:28 PM » |
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I dont know where you get your info from zaregemca, but if you talk to the munequitos de matanzas. they play rumba columbia in 6/8. Including short bell, and a 6/8 clave. the palitos are in 4/4 along with the quinto ride at times. But the rythym itself is defiitely 6/8.
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Dusty-Greer
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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2003, 04:34 PM » |
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Maybe this would clarify some too:
there are 3 different rumbas in the rumba family, each having many different way to play them, depending on where you are in cuba.
1. rumba guaguanco (the most recognized rumba)
2. rumba yambu (the old folks dance)
3. columbia (the 6/8 one, usually with dancers with swords and knives and fire!)
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zaragemca
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« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2003, 08:26 AM » |
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I don't have to talk with the Munequitos,my father is from Matanzas The 6/8 is a Yoruba Pattern with was created for Ritual Purpose together with the drums and the bell pattern which was brought it to Cuba and Brazil for the individuals which belong to that organization and those pattern have specific names which have never been Rumba.When I was in Cuba I never listen the Munequitos playing Yoruba Pattern and calling it Rumba,those pattern were played only for ritual purpose not for the people just to dance,for the same token there were Percussionists which dedicate themself to play only those pattern in they religious ceremonies.Neither the Congas was the original Drum to play those patterns.
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SheldonWhite
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« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2003, 09:09 AM » |
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I dont know where you get your info from zaregemca, but if you talk to the munequitos de matanzas. they play rumba columbia in 6/8. Including short bell, and a 6/8 clave. the palitos are in 4/4 along with the quinto ride at times. But the rythym itself is defiitely 6/8.
Actually, it is counted in 4. When I was taking lessons from an expert teacher in Seattle (Brian Rice), I made the mistake of tapping in 6 with my foot. Without saying a word, he gently stepped on my foot, and pointed to his foot, which was tapping in 4. |
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zaragemca
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« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2003, 09:14 AM » |
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Of course the Rumba have always been a 4/4 pattern.
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Drumlooney
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« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2003, 09:48 AM » |
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Ok, in Salsa music a Tumbao is a rhythm but there are may different ways to play it, and a rumba can be 4/4 and 3/4 at the same time.
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You don't practice one day no one notices, you don't practice two days you notice, you don't practice three days everyone notices.
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zaragemca
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« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2003, 11:15 AM » |
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To tell you the true, what is called 'Salsa' is compose of three patterns,Son,which is the mosly played by Bands,Guaracha which is less played becouse is faster and the Rumba with is also called Salsa Mayor,or Latin-Jazz.The Songo, which was developed in the 70's by Los Van Van Group, and is the way which the new generation of musicians have been playing that music in Cuba,...Irakere Band,Los Van Van,La Ritmo Oriental,Los Reyes 73,Los Bocucos,NG la Banda,Grupo Impacto,etc.There is not Rumba in 3/4, that Time signature is used to play Walts,etc.
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Drumlooney
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« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2003, 12:12 PM » |
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Actually Salsa is a mixture of a lot more rhythms then that, hence the reason they call it salsa it's a sauce or mix of many rhythms, and rumba is written in 4/4 but can be played in 3/4. Try it, it sounds strange but it's true, I'm not saying these things to argue with you, nor am I looking for a debate, just stating some things.
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You don't practice one day no one notices, you don't practice two days you notice, you don't practice three days everyone notices.
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Dusty-Greer
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« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2003, 12:23 PM » |
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ok nevermind, I give in to the "Master Percussionist". Ill definitely never try to offer my advice again. At least for a couple of minutes anyway. My humble apologies. (Even though I've got about 6 different recordings of the one I'm mentioning) Is your father a drummer? Just being from Cuba doesn't necesarilly mean you know drumming, just as being american doesn't necesarily mean you know the blues. ( I don't know jack about the blues) I'm sure you're right! (Even though all the rumberos I know in Colorado disagree)Maybe we should make a topic on this one. What is rumba?
Thanks to drumlooney for sayin a rumba can be 3/4 and 4/4 at the same time. That's what im trying to say. In the rumba columbia I know, the congas(tumba, low conga) are in a 6/8 pattern. Then on top of that you can play any of the regular palitos from guaguanco. the quinto then rides on the 4/4 groove with the palitos, making for a delicious blend.
And to Sheldon, you can still tap 4 on a 6/8 rythym, in fact, I find most of the time I do
0 - - 0 - - 0 - - 0 - -
or
bembe quinto 0=tone x=slap -=space
ox-ox-ox-ox-
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Scott
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« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2003, 02:39 PM » |
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To tell you the true, what is called 'Salsa' is compose of three patterns,Son,which is the mosly played by Bands,Guaracha which is less played becouse is faster and the Rumba with is also called Salsa Mayor,or Latin-Jazz.The Songo, which was developed in the 70's by Los Van Van Group, and is the way which the new generation of musicians have been playing that music in Cuba,...Irakere Band,Los Van Van,La Ritmo Oriental,Los Reyes 73,Los Bocucos,NG la Banda,Grupo Impacto,etc.There is not Rumba in 3/4, that Time signature is used to play Walts,etc.
This thread has really confused me regarding the understanding of different Afro-Cuban styles. I thought Son, Rumba, Songo, Mambo, etc. were all different styles of Afro-Cuban music. This post sounds like Songo and Salsa are the same thing. My understanding of Salsa is the same as Drumlooney's in that it is a mix of different Afro-Cuban rhythms, possibly leaning the heaviest toward the mambo. Is any of this understanding correct? Bart may need to do a lesson for us on Afro-Cuban styles!  Scott (seeking "master percussionist" enlightenment)  |
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2003, 04:16 PM » |
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Salsa is not a style per se ... but rather a generic term used to describe a kind of Afro-Cuban music (with vocals) that has been influenced by other Caribbean styles and Jazz. The word "salsa" was first came into use (musically) here in the US, New York City to be more specific, to describe a particular hybrid-Latin music style.
There are so many variations that to say that Salsa is one thing, you'd have to say the same thing about Rock and Jazz; the differences are wide and varied. I think the term "salsa" has become so generic ... you might as well group it with "latin".
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