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Mister Acrolite
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« on: June 03, 2003, 02:02 PM »

Well, I decided to go and get my hearing tested - I've got an appointment tomorrow morning with an audiologist.

I've been relatively careful over the years, using earplugs a lot in the louder, harder bands I was in, but lately I get the feeling I might be missing something.

Little stuff, like that high whistle the TV makes when it's on, but muted - I don't hear that anymore. And sometimes I don't hear people coming up behind me, so I'm startled when they suddenly appear. Not a good thing when I've got a full cup of coffee in my hand...   Roll Eyes The biggest thing I notice is that in a crowded room full of people talking, I have difficulty focusing on individual voices.

I hope and assume I'm not in terribly bad shape, but I've got to believe I've lost some hearing over nearly 30 years of pro drumming. So this appointment was made partially to satisfy my own morbid curiosity. Wish me luck - I'll let you know how it goes...
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« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2003, 02:22 PM »

I definitely wish you all the luck in the world.  I have tinnitus pretty bad in my right ear (I'm listening to the fabulous multi-tone symphony going on in my head right now).  I haven't had my hearing tested for years, but I'm sure it has suffered some.  I know what you mean about hearing the tv when the sound is off and I could always hear the alarm systems in stores as well.  Not so sure about that anymore.  Don't know if I want to hear an actual percentage number relating to hearing loss  Sad
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« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2003, 03:22 PM »

im nearly blind in one eye, so i figure my hearing must be better because of it right? ... its the Marvel comics theory of sensory balance.  

[size=-2]perfect setup for one of you to say "explains your great taste and awful smell" ... sheesh.[/size]
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« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2003, 04:47 PM »

I've had tinnitus for about five years now, due to the result of playing in loud bands with no hearing protection.  I've got to the point of not being bothered with the constant ring in my ears for the most part, but there are times when it still bugs me.  These days, I use a headphone mix, and have it custom-tailored to my liking.  Something I should have done years ago, I know.  It's not that I'm totally impaired, but I do have a problem with hearing high frequencies these days, so I doubt that I'll attempt running the soundboard or doing any final mixing in the studio.  

The one piece of advice I give to anyone who is in an occupation, be it music or anything else, is to PROTECT YOUR EARS before it's too late.

That's one of the reasons I use my personal motto under my username on this board, along with the fact that I always used it when a club owner told me I was playing too loud.             :-)

Good luck to you, Mr. A.  Let us all know what the audiologist has to say.

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« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2003, 08:45 PM »

Yeah, my fiance has to practically yell at sometimes,(when I'm not in trouble!), just so I can hear her. But there's other times I can hear the slightest little noise, its strange.

I had my hearing tested a few years ago and one ear was good and the other had some loss in it. Wonder what it is now?

But it is a good excuse if you don't want to listen to someone   Grin.
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« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2003, 09:20 PM »

Best wishes.

Hold on, let me say that louder.

BEST WISHES!

Just kidding of course.

I'm sure you'll be fine.

It's not like you were playing death metal for all those years.  Wink
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« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2003, 05:20 AM »

The biggest thing I notice is that in a crowded room full of people talking, I have difficulty focusing on individual voices.

I have noticed this same thing, and my wife thinks I've got some hearing loss.  It's the same in any place with a lot of peripheral noise, even a dishwasher or traffic noise.  The individual voice gets lost in the general noise of the environment.  All those years of hard rock drumming have really paid off. Roll Eyes Don't have that problem with praise band stuff. Smiley

I have found that I have to look at the person talking, even at their mouth sometimes, to concentrate on their voice and even to help interpret what is being said ("Did you see that guy staring at my mouth?  What a weirdo!")  Even so, I don't have problems hearing any particular part in a song, such as an obscure background part that is very soft and subtle.  Mainly when there's 'white noise' or whatever you'd call it in the background.  It seems to drown out everything else.

I hope your hearing test goes well.

Doug
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« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2003, 07:17 AM »



I can't hear anything in a crowded room either.  People talk to me in bars and I just nod my head.

You have been playing longer than me though and you have seen some pretty big venues- to tell you the truth I don't know if that is better or worse than what the average weekend warrior goes thru.  At least those sound guys know what they are doing.

Throughout college my drum teacher had to have a hearing aid.  He was very hard of hearing.

I was playing the piano quite softly this morning and my ears started ringing.  Sucks.

I need mine checked also and a full physical.

Hey, it might not be as bad as you think.  I think you will be ok  Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2003, 09:11 AM »

I've been wearing hearing aids for about 8 years now. The only thing I can say to ease anyone's mind about getting them is that it is not the end of the world. I lost most of my hearing in marching and drum corp back in the late 80's; a few heavy projects following college put the icing on the cake.

When I meet new fans and aspiring drummers, I can't stess the importance of hearing protection enough to them. Although they don't even notice until I bring it up, my words definately make a lasting impression. Don't look at this as hurdle, but as a spring board to educate others. Use your loss to create gain for others.

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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2003, 10:00 AM »

I'm back, and breathing a sigh of relief.

The audiologist says my hearing is actually very good, particularly considering what I do for a living. I do have some hearing loss -  a noticable notch in my ability to hear high frequencies (in the 4K range). But she said that's really not too bad, and fairly common for the sort of aural abuse rock drumming puts your ears through.

During the preliminary interview, when I told her I'd been drumming for 30 years, her eyes got kind of big, and she was very relieved when I told her I'd been fairly diligent about using ear plugs in the louder bands I'd been in. She thinks that is what saved me from further, more serious damage.

Two other points I took away from my conversation with her:

The notch in my hearing can lead to increased sensitivity to loud noises, which I have noticed (when telling my daughter to turn her @$%# stereo down, and then immediately feeling like an old fart for having spoken those words). She said this can also make me susceptible to further hearing loss if I don't protect my hearing - apparently a notch like that acts as a chink in the armor, so to speak, and helps open the way to further damage. In other words, the current damage has weakened my resistance to further damage.

Also, she wanted to know what kind of plugs I had used. I told her that after much experimentation, I'd settled on the simple foam plugs, such as the ones pictured below:



She said that was an excellent choice, and that other than prescription-fitted plugs or the headphone-style mufflers worn when using firearms, that these were the best at attenuating high-volume sounds over the entire frequency range.

So I feel both lucky and relieved. And sort of a "testament to clean living" - I've played in some SERIOUSLY loud bands, but have been cautious and diligent about using plugs. Looks like that really paid off!

So kids, say no to drugs, and yes to plugs!  Cool
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« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2003, 10:15 AM »

I'm back, and breathing a sigh of relief.
That's good news.  Interesting what you say about a "chink in the armor".  I'm no doctor, and I haven't been tested, but I've got to believe I have at least one chink of not more.  Thanks Mr_A, I think you just convinced me to go out and get my hearing checked.  
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« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2003, 10:32 AM »

THAT'S GREAT.

Oh, sorry... I mean [size=1.5]that's great[/size].  Grin

Maybe your aversion to loudness is partly what spawned your recent, renewed acoustic jazz interest?
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« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2003, 12:48 PM »

Mr A, How long were you playing when you started using plugs???  I have some significant hearing loss from the 15 years that IVe been playing.
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« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2003, 01:18 PM »

That's really great news!

The 4kHz drop makes sense because that's where the frequency range where all the attack is ... like in your Snare Drum. Now if you had used something other than your Acrolite, you'd probably have a drop loss around 5kHz.  Wink

I need to get my hearing tested as well; just to know where I'm at these days.

You know, why does music have to be so loud anyway? I know that on the drums we have to play somewhat loud just to get the proper sound ... but what does the overall music have to be so @$%# loud?!  I've never understood that ... even when I was young. I guess it's a aural drug ... getting high off the volume and energy from the music.

Now I sound really old, and I haven't even turned 40 yet ... but I'm close ... very close.
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« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2003, 01:42 PM »

You know, why does music have to be so loud anyway? I know that on the drums we have to play somewhat loud just to get the proper sound ... but what does the overall music have to be so d**n loud?!  I've never understood that ... even when I was young. I guess it's a aural drug ... getting high off the volume and energy from the music.

depends on the music.  most of my solo stuff is quiet in nature and volume.  my band gets loud (because redchapter is heavy handed Wink kidding) because the imediacy and intensity level demands it.  but its balanced by quieter passages.  so our max volume can be lower than some similar bands because when we do add volume, its got more impact because of the overall dynamic.

i actually recently did a pair of electronic music shows that were in experiment in the nature of volume and its relationship to the audience. they both featured the same artists using essentially the same rigs (for each show, not each artist) they were called "Threshold of Hearing" and "Threshold of Pain".   the latter attended by fewer folks (not surprising) but highly regarded.  all the compliments were around the fact that the volume of the music made it an inescapable physical presence in the room.  many people compared it to something like a bath or sensory deprivation chamber (with uncomfortable chairs Wink ).  while the former was appreciated for totally different reasons.

it seemed the major difference was a matter of active vs passive listening.  the Hearing show was active.  people had to focus on the sound.  so there was a certain amount of work involved where the Pain show wasnt.  we actually got more genuinely positive response from the Pain show.  
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« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2003, 01:51 PM »

Mr A, How long were you playing when you started using plugs???  I have some significant hearing loss from the 15 years that IVe been playing.

I'm trying to remember, but am not completely sure. I started playing drumset when I was around 13, but wasn't doing too much loud music until my mid-20's - then I got into some much heavier music for the next decade. That has tapered off in recent years - I do a lot of quiet gigs now.

On the Travers gig I developed instincts for when we were TOO loud, and if I started feeling some pressure on my ears, I'd pop in the ear plugs between songs and keep them in for the rest of the gig. We would get so loud that I could actually feel pressure on my ears, like when you're descending in an airplane. That was my signal that some protection was needed. I used plugs a lot with Travers - we were LOUD.

I still play very hard in the studio, but don't do sessions all that often. The concert gigs I do now are what I'd call "full-volume" as opposed to flat-out "high volume," and I rarely wear plugs, unless we're playing a room with a low, reflective ceiling. But I hit hard, and use gear that projects a lot, so I always have a little case with ear plugs in it hanging from my stickbag, just in case. Looks like that practice is paying off.

Have you had your hearing tested? An audiologist can really help you figure out the best way to protect what you've got.
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« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2003, 02:13 PM »

You know, why does music have to be so loud anyway? ...
I can only speak from experience.  When I first started going to concerts in the late sixties, emphasis was always put on volume.  I can't speak much for now because most of the concerts I attend are in smaller venues (MUCH better sound, more intimate and not as LOUD).  There was a Little Feat concert I attended once that I actually had to leave the theatre, they were SO LOUD (and they're not a really loud band).  We used to have a 4 or 5 piece band (depending on when you asked) that would rehearse in a room that was maybe 15'x15'.  So, in the early 80's this included four amped instruments, plus drums, plus vocals, plus EVERYONE smoking something (enough so you could barely see).  When I talk to any of my former bandmates we always wonder how we can hear or breathe after those days.  Tongue

Plus, loud was always cool.  When our band bought our first Vox Super Beatle, we freaked and used it as loud as it could go!  Guitarists with Marshall amps would come by and turn them up just loud enough to pierce your eardrums.   The first time I saw Jimi Hendrix and Cream, each guitarist and bass player was accompanied by a STACK of Marshall amplifiers.

I don't know why, I just know it is.  Cool
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« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2003, 08:16 PM »

The audiologist says my hearing is actually very good

I'd settled on the simple foam plugs, such as the ones pictured below:
Good news about your hearing.

Those E*A*R plugs are the same ones I began using 17 years ago while working around F-4 and F-16 fighter aircraft.  Of course, around those beasts we are required to wear double hearing protection.

The good thing about doing flight line work in the military is the emphasis on safety, to include protecting our hearing, and the requirement to take a hearing test every year.  Music is my passion, so I never want to compromise my hearing.

Tom
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« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2003, 08:24 PM »

The 4kHz drop makes sense because that's where the frequency range where all the attack is ... like in your Snare Drum.

That makes a lot of sense.  My probable hearing loss may trace back to playing in the snare line in marching band.  I used to take those 3S monsters and wail on, and I loved to jam the rim shots when outdoors (loved to hear the echo off the distant buildings, but was mainly too immature to even know what that could do to my ears). That has been a long time ago; I am also pushing 40 (this August) and need to think of the future -- of my ears!   Grin

Thanks to everyone for sharing.  This has been an eye-opener (or EAR, as it were).  I will surely be more careful with what hearing I have left!  Smiley

Doug
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« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2003, 09:39 PM »

I am surprised nobody has mentioned the Westone custom-fitted earplugs in detail...The problem with most 'over the counter' type earplugs is the frequency attenuation is rather distorted...Regular Foam plugs will provide quite a bit of dB relief, but the sound quality suffers BIG TIME if you are looking to still hear the nuances of the music.  It may not be so noticeable in loud rock situations, but I prefer to be able to hear my equipment as it is SUPPOSED to sound, as this helps me play better WITH the band.  A standard foam plug will provide an even attenuation (sound reduction) from 0 to 250 Hz..mostly the bass frequencies.....after that, it starts cutting out a lot of the 500-2000 range FAIRLY evenly, with a little spike at 2000.  From there it starts cutting out the 2000-8000 DRASTICALLY, which can cause a major distortion of sound in everything from toms to snares and ESPECIALLY cymbal sound. (I am a cymbalholic, so to me, this is UNACCEPATBLE  Wink  The Westone ER series is a custom fitted plug, done by your audiologist.  They take molds of your inner ears, send them off to Westone, and 2-3 weeks later you have your custom made plugs.  I find them VERY comfortable, and forget I am wearing them many times.  THe molds have an opening in the middle where you stick in this nifty little sound filter that filters out the frequecies accross the board, preserving sound quality, but making it QUIETER....ooops, quieter  
        I use the ER 15's, which just means the level of sound reduction is 15 dB all the way accross...They also make ER 9's and 25's for either extreme end of the spectrum of dynamics.   My audiologist assured me the 15 dB was enough for just about any circumstance I play in, but for those who DO play in LOTS of loud situations, you may consider the 25's....I have a set of 15 AND 25 dB filters, just in case....The filters are $35 a pair, and getting the custom plugs done runs anywhere from $75 to $150...CALL AROUND...prices vary GREATLY betweeen audiologists.  
    I have used these for about 8 years now, and I recently had my hearing checked after a bad sinus infection in which I had a lot of fluid buildup in the ear....My hearing has not declined AT ALL in 8 years of steady playing.
        I do not know if all audiologists will require a doctors referral, but mine did not.  I would SERIOUSLY recommend these to any professional musician who is commited to keeping their hearing, but also is not satisfied with the poor sound quality of standard earplugs.  Feel free to send me a message if you have any further questions regarding the plugs.  
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« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2003, 10:51 AM »

That's really great news!

The 4kHz drop makes sense because that's where the frequency range where all the attack is ... like in your Snare Drum. Now if you had used something other than your Acrolite, you'd probably have a drop loss around 5kHz.  Wink

I need to get my hearing tested as well; just to know where I'm at these days.

You know, why does music have to be so loud anyway? I know that on the drums we have to play somewhat loud just to get the proper sound ... but what does the overall music have to be so d**n loud?!  I've never understood that ... even when I was young. I guess it's a aural drug ... getting high off the volume and energy from the music.

Now I sound really old, and I haven't even turned 40 yet ... but I'm close ... very close.

Funny, my neighbor is a rock guitarist who complains about tinitus.  Yet, he says that if he can't feel the volume in his chest, it's just not any fun.  Go figure.

Ratamatatt
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« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2003, 10:30 PM »

Im surprised I can hear anything. I fly in C-130 airplanes for a living and I play drums as a hobby. Like Jeep said, I have to use double hearing protection in the plane though.
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« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2003, 10:42 PM »

I think I'm going to get my hearing tested as well; it sure can't hurt to see where I stand.

Actually, I encourage everyone to get tested. The cost is minimal and it could save your hearing, just by getting informed.

The specialist here in Nashville, the best guy in town that does all the inear moldings for all the musicians, only charges $10 for the hearing test. Seems to me it would be worth every penny.
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« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2003, 05:40 AM »

The specialist here in Nashville, the best guy in town that does all the inear moldings for all the musicians, only charges $10 for the hearing test. Seems to me it would be worth every penny.

And for everyone else, most hearing aid centers will test your hearing for free.  
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