you know, this question of HOW DO YOU LEARN JAZZ
irks me (just a little).

if you've "got it in you" (to borrow a phrase from ad-
vertising) then, instead of needing encouragement,
noone could keep you from it!

i just think that we're straying away from the original
intent of the music, and this art form is in danger of
losing its' soul.

once the music can be annotated and codified, so
that people learn the "correct" way to play it, then
the music comes off as being somewhat sterile...

i don't know...it's like listening to the air force band
playing a swing tune. they hit all the "right" notes,
(reading the music, and playing it EXACTLY as it's
written, but something was missing; IT DIDN'T SWING).

there's just something odd about some kid in the
suburbs learning how to comp a solo (from a trans-
scription) from, say, a jazz player from years ago.
someone, like say, charlie parker for instance.

can that kid feel what mr. parker might have felt?
(suffering indignities in his life, fighting an addiction
to heroin). NO. he can't. can't come close. has no
idea. (but he can play the notes "right".

MY SUGGESTION:  study your history, and find out
where this music came from, and read about the
pioneers, and learn about their lives. THEN, you'll
begin to understand ON A DEEPER LEVEL, and begin
to appreciate some of the inspiration that went into
making this music...

This may be a little off topic (would I ever do that? ) but after re-reading this thread, something really interesting occurred to me.

When I was coming up, and I hope some of the other old timers will back me up, there wasn't the exposure to all the different styles, all the different talented drummers, all the possibillities. If you lived very far off the beaten path your only good source was recordings. I remember tearing through my new issues of DownBeat just praying there would be a meaty drum or percussion article with transcripts.
These days, young drummers are absolutely overwhelmed with information. I used to be somewhat envious...you know..."gee, if I'da had this stuff in my day, what kind'a drummer would I be now?". But now I'm thinking it can really make it tougher.
You have so many choices. Where do you begin, which path, how to progress.
Bottom line...There are as many choices as there are drummers. It's no wonder kids (relative to my own age, that is) coming up these days express confusion. I think from now on I'll limit my advice to....Naaaahhh, ...never mind

how do you learn jazz? ...

Listen to Kind of Blue (Miles Davis), My Favorite Things (John Coltrane), and any Charlie Parker recordings (as was mentioned before, it's not all drums).  Listen to the local jazz radio station (usually a college, eh?).  Jazz has to be felt.  

Avoid Kenny G.

well, i'll admit that i didn't start out listening to "hard
bop" from the beginning.  even though i appreciate
it now, it HAS been a gradual process.

i just remember the way i was introduced to it (through a band teacher who gave me material to
read on "how creative people work", while at the
same time playing  the music i was
reading about).

maybe i think that was a good way (well, i KNOW it
was a good way), but maybe i'm partial to that
approach because it sparked an interest that has
stayed with me.

and i'm still learning. that's what makes it so nice. i'm
grateful for that.

and, if the originator of this thread is showing an
interest, then it was sparked by something/someone. and that's a good thing.

i would suggest to anyone to PLAY, but also to READ
ABOUT what they're playing.

i know the way i was introduced "worked". (i'm still
interested!) and i would wish the same thing for
other people who become interested in it.

so, if another approach lights the same fire in some-
one else like it has in me, then that's great.

anytime any of us tries a certain approach to something, and it turns out to be successful/effective,
and then we see somebody else trying it a different
way, we have a tendancy to say:  "why are you doing it THAT way for?"

i just know that the way i was taught sparked an
interest that'll be with me for the rest of my life.

it's a feeling.  you can't teach someone to feel.  but
if you're successful as a teacher(like mine was) you
plant the seeds...

here's a test for the originator of this thread:  listen
to jane monheits' version of "detour ahead". listen
to the way she ends that tune.  if you don't feel that
in your gut, then forget jazz and start playing rock n
roll.

i'm only slightly kidding...

BSOM - "there's just something odd about some kid in the suburbs learning how to comp a solo (from a trans-
scription) from, say, a jazz player from years ago.
someone, like say, charlie parker for instance.
can that kid feel what mr. parker might have felt?
(suffering indignities in his life, fighting an addiction
to heroin). NO. he can't. can't come close. has no
idea. (but he can play the notes "right").

I think I see what yer saying and I agree with the sentiment but disagree with your conclusion. I'm pretty lucky with my current teacher, he has both studied and played with two greats of this music, Lennie Tristano and Sal Mosca. Their approach to transcribing gets to the heart of your concern, I think.
I agree that far too many players either transcribe or read transcriptions that others have done with an eye to simply "increasing vocabulary". They are looking for phrases that they can cop, little licks that they can plug in. Kinda like reading a bunch of Shakespeare so that you can throw little tidbits into the conversation. You end up not really "saying" anything, just inserting this pastiche of ideas from other sources that sort of seem to be apropos to the conversation at hand.

The "Tristano" approach is vastly different. You begin by listening to the solo at half speed and singing along with it. You aren't just trying to hit pitches, but grabbing every little nuance in the solo - the legato, staccato, glisses, breath, the attacks, the ends of the notes, where the vibrato is, dynamics, EVERY little thing about that solo. And when you can sing it at half speed so that there is no divide between your voice and, say, Pres' solo, that it sounds like the tenor is coming out of your mouth, then you start singing it at full speed. When you get to the same point at full speed, THEN you pick up your instrument and start playing those notes on it. Two things are going on here:
1. you are gaining a wealth of practical information on phrasing, vocabulary etc.
but more importantly
2. you are making the connect between hearing a line ( that now is Pres solo on TAXI WAR DANCE for example) in your head and then getting those notes out into the air by playing them on your instrument.

Which is what jazz improvising is all about, hearing other people play what they are hearing over a specific harmonic framework and hearing something that is yours and playing that.

Now the funny thing is that working on other folks solos in this fashion really allows you to connect with them on almost the same level as if you were playing with them. You hear how they approach harmony tells you a lot about how and what they were hearing. It tells you a lot about their approach to their instrument. You can hear just how happy they were to have the horn in their mouth, or how introspective they were or how outgoing, sh*t like that.

It's only about the notes if that's where you stop.

The desire to improvise, to play something that no one else has played, that no one else could have played cause it came from inside you, no that can't be taught. But if the desire is there, then having someone teach you how to hear with clarity, to understand what you are hearing, to have the technical wherewithal to get what you are hearing out on your instrument, sure that can be taught and learned.


As far as reading a couple of suggestions

for the lifestyle/anecdotal kinda thing
Bill Crow's JAZZ ANECDOTES (I think is the title)
Marian McPartland's ALL IN GOOD TIME

and for a pretty interesting look at how a lot of different players approach improvising
THINKING IN JAZZ