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sticksrandom
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« on: July 18, 2003, 07:38 PM » |
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im sorry if this is the wrong forum for this, but im having a big problem with my snare. its an 80s premier 6.5" steel snare, not sure exactly what model. i am a heavy hitter and the sound that most suits my band is a loud rimshot, however on this particular snare, when i play on the snare for as little as one minute, the hoop gets pulled into an egg shape and over the edge of the skin so that that side of the skin loses all tension. after removing the hoop and inspecting it, it has gone back into round. i dont want to play on a die cast or wood hoop as the sound isnt appropriate, but the drum is unplayable as it is.
has anyone seen this problem before and what steps can i take to remedy it?
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563
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« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2003, 08:26 PM » |
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Sounds like a cheap thin hoop. Get a new one. At least 2.3mm "power" hoop. Also, dont dismiss the diecast so quickly. Sounds like it might be perfect for what you need. Not just for durability but would add some meat to those rim shots and might make it more suitable to play off the rim as well. Any minor differences in resonance can be fixed in tuning.
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Making bad art. Saying stupid things. Implimenting my master plan to be forgotten when I'm gone and forgettable while I'm here. The Luna MothmeTableland
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sticksrandom
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« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2003, 08:39 PM » |
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ive tried the die cast. WAAAAYYY too much pingy brightness for me. and the wooden one was boomy 80s rock mayhem. not what im after either. so i guess the power hoop is the go. what part of the sound will that alter? and exactly what should i ask for when i pay my local drum shoppe a visit? in australia, all too often i have found myself asking for something ive been recommended only to be met with a dumbfounded expression. "whats a luglock?"
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563
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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2003, 08:52 PM » |
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Ill assume you tried the diecast on your drum specifically? Not to beat a dead horse, but if youre bending hoops you might need a compromise. Either live with bent and bending hoops or rethink your tuning. "Bright pinginess" can be brought down with head choice and tuning. And steel shells being especially prone to that naturally, a little duct tape muffling in the shell would help that too. It might be worth experimenting if it means having a hoop retain its shape and your drum stay in tune.
As for the "power" hoop, just ask for one the right size and number of holes and check it out. Typically hoops are either the thinner 1.5mm or 2.3mm since theyre pretty much all World Max, theres not a lot of variety. Bring in your old one and make sure the new ones heavier.
Sonic differences between a thin hoop and a heavy one are minimal if any. One of the reasons die cast sound so much different than flanged is because of the way the its made (cast as opposed to stamped). While the differences between a light and heavy flanged hoop is only weight. I found that when I replaced some cheap hoops on a couple of my snares with good ones, they had a little more depth. Not a pitch change as much as a more well rounded sound. Clearer, cleaner sounding.
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Making bad art. Saying stupid things. Implimenting my master plan to be forgotten when I'm gone and forgettable while I'm here. The Luna MothmeTableland
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sticksrandom
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« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2003, 09:12 PM » |
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thanks heaps for your help. i guess it cant hurt to try the die cast - especially if this hoop thats causing me grief is already a thicker one. i have other hoops lying around that arent nearly as heavy on some crappier drums. i would be using them if they didnt closely resemble the outside edge of a warped record.
what's your head recommendation for a high pitched, sharp crack? i tend to beat the daylights out of my drum at gigs when im full of energy and excitement (its essential to the vibe the band is trying to convey, but jeez it costs me a fortune in sticks and new heads!). i use a remo coated CS on one side and a clear ambassador on the other at the mo but im not entirely happy with the way it's working for this particular drum.
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drumwild
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« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2003, 09:34 PM » |
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Die cast hoops are really the way to go, as they don't bend and the head gets seated in a uniform manner. They take the ultimate beating.
If you don't like the die cast, ask for a new triple-flange.
Triple-flange isn't as sturdy because it starts out as a straight piece of metal that is bent to fit the head.
If you must have triple-flange, buy lots of them because you'll tear 'em up if you hit hard.
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2003, 04:58 AM » |
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thanks heaps for your help. i guess it cant hurt to try the die cast - especially if this hoop thats causing me grief is already a thicker one. i have other hoops lying around that arent nearly as heavy on some crappier drums. i would be using them if they didnt closely resemble the outside edge of a warped record.
what's your head recommendation for a high pitched, sharp crack? i tend to beat the daylights out of my drum at gigs when im full of energy and excitement (its essential to the vibe the band is trying to convey, but jeez it costs me a fortune in sticks and new heads!). i use a remo coated CS on one side and a clear ambassador on the other at the mo but im not entirely happy with the way it's working for this particular drum.
Get an Aquarian Hi-Energy head. Sounds tremendous, and is FAR more durable than the head you're currently using. And if you're literally bending hoops, I have two suggestions: 1) Die-cast hoops. If you didn't like the sound before, I suspect it was the drum or the head that you didn't like, not the hoops. Hoops do affect sound, but not THAT much. 2) Examine your technique. It should be possible to hit VERY hard without damaging the rims, which makes me suspect you're not letting the stick rebound on impact as much as you should. But if you've had some training and your technique is sound, go back to suggestion 1. If you hit THAT hard, you need to adjust the equipment to the technique. Good luck!
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Louis
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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2003, 05:34 AM » |
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A cheap thin hoop will not hold up to heavy hitting. You will have to adjust your equipment! A sound that is a little too pingy is a lot better than a sound that only last a minute or so. You will have to make a compromise somewhere, either in your equipment or your technique.
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No one will believe it's the "Blues" if you wear a suit, 'less you happen to be an old person, and you slept in it last night!
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AndyDierker
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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2003, 11:09 AM » |
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The same thing used to happen to me - but it was because I was using a cheap hoop and had the tension on the snare batter WAAAYYY too tight. So tight that it actually pulled the hoop over the bearing edge.
It was a crappy snare and that was the only way it sounded good to my ears (the bearing edges were shot to hell). Don't know if this is of help at all, but just thought I'd chime in.
I didn't rehab the snare, I tossed it.
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Poopypants
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« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2003, 02:31 PM » |
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Check the roundness of the drum. If it's out of round, hoops will be prone to getting bent out of round fairly quickly.
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Louis
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« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2003, 03:38 PM » |
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Check the roundness of the drum. If it's out of round, hoops will be prone to getting bent out of round fairly quickly.
That is possible but I think its more like trying to drive a nail with a screwdriver. You must have the correct tool for the job and I don't think has the proper tool for the job he is trying to do. If he is a heavy hitter with thin hoops and high tuning it will not work for long.
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No one will believe it's the "Blues" if you wear a suit, 'less you happen to be an old person, and you slept in it last night!
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sticksrandom
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« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2003, 07:36 PM » |
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thanks heaps for all the suggestions, but i went on instinct and got the flanged hoop instead, turns out that when premier made the drum i own they were in the habit of making their hoops a few mm too wide in diameter. the new hoop is working like a charm. sounds great, my snare lasted the entire gig last night without losing its tuning.
with regards to my technique, this could well still be a huge part of my problem. i dont think my technique is very good at all and my current financial position forbids me from getting lessons, so does anyone know of any resources either online or in book format that i could use to adjust the way i sit at and hit the drums?
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drummeralone
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« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2003, 09:01 AM » |
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if its a problem with getiing a deader sound and a less pingy rimshot, just try a power rim with a rythemtech drumcircle or some other muffler.i have a ludwig and the snare is ringy, but with aquarian heads and the drumcircle i get a kind of punk rock/pop rock sound. pretty much an all around sound.
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