Christopher
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« on: July 30, 2003, 12:23 PM » |
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Lend me your ears for a moment and tell me what you think the ride pattern is here.
[stream=256,256]http://mywpages.comcast.net/chrisodonnell/peg.mp3[/stream]
It's the classic Steely Dan song, Peg. The great Rick Marotta is the drummer on the track.
I've always loved this groove but I'm torn about exactly what is going on with the hi-hat and I've never seen notation on it.
Thanks.
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2003, 12:32 PM » |
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The HiHat/Ride pattern is: 1 &u 2 &u 3 &u 4 &u The bold is accents ... the other strokes are hard to hear at times because of the recording and/or that they are ghosted. If you listen close, you can hear the ghosted strokes ... it's not just up-beats on the AND or &. Sort of like an old school, double time, Jazz ride pattern. |
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2003, 12:32 PM » |
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I've always thought of this as simply Rick playing two-note groups on the "& ah" of each beat, occasionally using his left foot to add another subtle note on beat 3.
Great groove, isn't it?
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Christopher
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« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2003, 12:43 PM » |
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Thanks gentlemen. It is a killer groove, most righteous.  It sounds like he is opening the hat ever so slightly on the accents as well. Do you hear that too? |
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"What one man can do, another can do."
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2003, 12:51 PM » |
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I hear him sometimes slightly open the hat on the "ah" of 2, in synch with that cool counter-melody.
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Christopher
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« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2003, 12:55 PM » |
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I hear him sometimes slightly open the hat on the "ah" of 2, in synch with that cool counter-melody.
I'm hearing that too now, after you wrote that. What a feel that guy has. Bart, are you saying that he's playing groups of three notes or are the quarters there just for reference? |
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"What one man can do, another can do."
-Charles Morse (Anthony Hopkin's character from the 1997 movie, The Edge)
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ritarocks
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« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2003, 01:06 PM » |
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"FEZ" is so cool too!
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Christopher
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« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2003, 01:14 PM » |
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Here's Dennis Chambers playing the song from the live record "Alive In America."
[stream=256,256]http://mywpages.comcast.net/chrisodonnell/peglive.mp3[/stream]
It almost sounds like 16ths ghosted under when he is playing it.
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Joe
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« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2003, 02:56 PM » |
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Well, I think Rick "wins", as far as I'm concerned; Dennis' groove is too smooth (while certainly excellent, per se)[edit:I failed to realize initially that Rick's groove was not live.—j.]. I like how there's that tension with the hi-hat and the very slight opening, as well as the slightly muted snare (a rim-shotted birch Gretsch IIRC.)[edit: it was a Ludwig with Canasonic heads—j.]. I also like the ride bell pattern in the bridges.
Lovely groove.
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I'm not a particularly slow player, yet I don't play fast. I play half-fast.
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2003, 03:54 PM » |
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Bart, are you saying that he's playing groups of three notes or are the quarters there just for reference?
Yes ..... three-note groupings. Think of it like the Moeller technique for playing three consecutive notes ... one main stroke with two controlled rebounds. |
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
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Joe
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« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2003, 03:59 PM » |
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Mr. Marotta has my respect for being able to carry an accent in the middle of three-note groupings alone; never mind what else he did. Didn't he start playing when he was 21?  |
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I'm not a particularly slow player, yet I don't play fast. I play half-fast.
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Christopher
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« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2003, 04:16 PM » |
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Yes ..... three-note groupings. Think of it like the Moeller technique for playing three consecutive notes ... one main stroke with two controlled rebounds.
I just can't hear that third note. I'm listening challenged I guess.  |
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Joe
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« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2003, 04:23 PM » |
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I just can't hear that third note. I'm listening challenged I guess. It's just barely audible; it's right smack-after the second note and easily confused with a squeeze-box. |
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I'm not a particularly slow player, yet I don't play fast. I play half-fast.
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2003, 04:41 PM » |
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I just can't hear that third note. I'm listening challenged I guess. The third note is going to be on the downbeats ... it's very soft (ghosted). I've seen some of these guys play the groove ... so perhaps that's cheating. I've seen Erskine play it, and have a loop CD with him playing it. When you hear the drums by themselves, it's easier to hear. I can, however, hear the downbeats (third note of the three-note grouping) in the original recording. |
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
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Joe
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« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2003, 04:43 PM » |
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Okay, I'm interested—is there a way to isolate the hi-hat track somehow from an mp3 of this file using software? Such knowledge would also be applicable elsewhere, of course.
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I'm not a particularly slow player, yet I don't play fast. I play half-fast.
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Christopher
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« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2003, 07:56 PM » |
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and have a loop CD with him playing it. Might you post a snipet good man? Please? Ok, pretty please with sugar on top? Okay, I'm interested—is there a way to isolate the hi-hat track somehow from an mp3 of this file using software? Such knowledge would also be applicable elsewhere, of course.
I don't think that it would be possible since it would be a two track stereo mix that you are starting out with. The only way I can imagine that would get close is "EQing" everything else out as much as you could. |
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Joe
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« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2003, 08:39 PM » |
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I was just messing around with Winamp per your suggestion, Christopher, and I was able to hear the hi-hat with more clarity with 6K through 14K a little higher (or, in this case, 'red'), and everything else at green. You might try it?
I'd post it, but I don't want to overrun the bandwidth.
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I'm not a particularly slow player, yet I don't play fast. I play half-fast.
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Poopypants
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« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2003, 09:02 AM » |
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I'm think he's using two hands on this groove, even though it could be played pretty easily with one. The reason I'm thinking this is that the downbeats do seem to drop in and out and the "ands" and "uhs" have a distinctly different feel .
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Poopypants
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« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2003, 07:44 AM » |
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I'm going to take that back. I sat down at the kit yesterday and tried it both ways. It feels better to me to play it with one hand on the hats. It's amazing how you can visualize yourself playing something one way, but change your mind when you actually try to do it.
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2003, 01:47 PM » |
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Right. I can guarantee you that he's NOT playing the groove with two hands on the hihat. I've never seen or heard any of the Steely Dan drummers do this on Peg ... and I certainly don't do that when I play the tune ... but, who am I anyway?  |
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
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