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Floyd42
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« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2003, 08:05 AM » |
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Is there anybody out there (!) who could please give the pros & cons of each - matched or traditional grip - technique ?
It would be great (maybe it's just a question of style I don't know !).
Thanks.
Floyd
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2003, 08:24 AM » |
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Is there anybody out there (!) who could please give the pros & cons of each - matched or traditional grip - technique ? Rick Beckham has a pretty good article on it HERE, written from a pro-matched-grip stance, and citing Mitch Markovich's previous writings on the topic. I've personally never read a convincing article in favor of traditional, but the grip has some staunch advocates. It's all opinion, and a quick look around will show you there are some great drummers using both grips. If whatever grip you currently use is working for you, there's no need to learn another, unless there's a drum corps or marching band drumline you need to conform with.
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Louderdb
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« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2003, 09:11 AM » |
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Like a lot of folks my age I learned to play traditional in school. I had a real tuff time applying that tecnic to the kit however. Matched grip always felt better to me. But like Louis said earlier, there are some groves that still feel better with traditional. The song "Cross Cut Saw" comes to mind. I play that song with traditional grip and it just kills my guitar player! LOL 
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cavalier302
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« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2003, 09:31 AM » |
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I'm just wondering what you guys think, do you ever think that traditional grip will die out, or cease to be very prevalent? I know it's probably not being taught very much to new students, and the only application where you absolutely need it would be DCI stuff. Just something to think about...it seems that traditional could go the way of the dodo. Oh yeah, and for those of you who are saying some things just feel better when played with traditional, I think that that is just a personal preference thing for you, since you probably grew up with that grip. Everything with traditional for me just feels completely alien!
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Mister Acrolite
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« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2003, 09:43 AM » |
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I'm just wondering what you guys think, do you ever think that traditional grip will die out, or cease to be very prevalent? I know it's probably not being taught very much to new students, and the only application where you absolutely need it would be DCI stuff. Just something to think about...it seems that traditional could go the way of the dodo. I would have agreed with you many years ago, but the opposite has happened. In the 70's many drum corps switched to matched grip, and most major music schools taught it to students of "legit" percussion. But now most of the drum corps have gone back to traditional, and many of the current top pro drummers are middle-aged guys who were taught traditional, so the grip is still quite prevalent. I doubt it will go away anytime soon, particularly since so many people seem to be adopting it simply because they think it looks cool. Oh yeah, and for those of you who are saying some things just feel better when played with traditional, I think that that is just a personal preference thing for you, since you probably grew up with that grip. Everything with traditional for me just feels completely alien!
Yeah - some serious repetition and muscle-memory training goes into learning how to play, so it's not surprising that for drummers who started out on traditional (like me), some things will just always feel more comfortable that way. But the way some of them defend the choice, suggesting that trad inherently allows you to do things you can't do with matched seems silly to me. Just look at your other hand - if trad is superior, why not hold BOTH sticks that way?  Bottom line: your grip should enable YOU to do the things you want to do. If it doesn't, change it (after practicing with it first, of course). I can't play loud enough with trad, and lacked the speed and endurance I wanted, so I switched. For me it was the right move, and I still have trad for those odd moments when it feels better. But I never teach trad to a new drummer - I simply don't see the need.
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Brett
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« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2003, 09:52 AM » |
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I don't know if this will help the discussion or not. I'm sure someone out there knows much more about this than I do, but many years ago I realized that traditional grip was the only way marching snare drummers could have played their old-style instruments. Many of you may remember the old Ludwigs, etc., that had a single strap which hung the drum from one shoulder (no fancy aluminum harness like the modern ones). Most had a leg bracket to keep the drum over your left leg while marching. I started out marching with one of those things. Those drums hung and tilted so extremely to the right that it would have been nearly impossible (and uncomfortable) to play matched grip without hitting the shank of the left stick on the hoop. Like Mr. A said, many of us are either so comfortable with traditional for certain licks that we keep using it (it's kind of a, ummm, tradition  ), or we have just never practiced the same licks enough with matched grip.
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RHSquonk
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« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2003, 10:19 AM » |
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I use both depending on what I am trying to accomplish musically. For the Latin stuff I tend to play matched, but for stuff that requires more nuance ( not that Latin doesn't..I can already feel the flames  ) I tend to use trad. I ( like Mr. A and a host of others) started on Traditional back in the day and switched later on. I have ( in the last 5 years) gone back to Trad as my main grip, but used matched when necessary. I see it as a tool...right tool for the right job...plain and simple. 'nufff said -RHS
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"I live in that solitude which is painful in youth, but delicious in the years of maturity" - Albert Einstein
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random
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« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2003, 01:36 PM » |
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i do the same thing as mark occasionally.
sometimes even play with both hands like that.
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blue-eyed soul man
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« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2003, 11:28 AM » |
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the cave man used matched. while playing with bones.
although i'm sure debates raged at the time among the tibia users vs. the femur users.
the tibia users were more polished players, able to demonstrate a more sophisticated, advanced level of playing.
while the femur players were more "primative" in their approach. only able to execute the most basic of sounds.
needless to say, the tibia players were despised by the femur players. (who, not surprisingly, made up the majority of players at the time).
i see matched grip players as the modern descendants of the femur players.
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sapazi
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« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2003, 09:07 AM » |
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Oh yeah, and for those of you who are saying some things just feel better when played with traditional, I think that that is just a personal preference thing for you, since you probably grew up with that grip. Everything with traditional for me just feels completely alien!
I learned how to play drums using traditional, and for roughly the past 26 years, except for my metal phase during the early '80s, i've used traditional exclusively.
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Winger
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« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2003, 09:34 PM » |
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I was taught traditional grip in the early 70's and still use it today. However with the current edrums I'm playing, there are a few pads that I can't hit with a traditional grip. So when I'm playing something requiring those I'll switch to matched grip. It may be at the beginning of the song when I switch or mid-stream when I remember "Oh yeah, I need to switch".
I can play either way, but since I grew up on the traditional grip, that's what I naturally prefer.
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felix
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« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2003, 05:03 AM » |
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When you play traditional you might as well put on a beret'
I like/learned playing matched but I toy with traditional cause "it looks cool" but matched just makes much more sense to me, especially for tom and cymbal work.
My "aim" is much better with the matched grip. I think that is important.
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Mateus
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« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2003, 07:44 AM » |
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Matched most of the time... Tradicional for brushes and for "snare soloing"!
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Winger
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« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2003, 01:33 PM » |
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Felix Said: My "aim" is much better with the matched grip. I think that is important. You mean our aim is supposed to be accurate when we play?  Seriously though, I HAVE to be accurate because the pads on my TrapKat are about 1/3 the size of most drum heads. Lots less room for error...
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drummer_21
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« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2003, 08:38 PM » |
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I play matched. I was taught it from when i started, and i would see trying to learn traditional as a step backwards.
At last years PASIC, i noticed John Riley playing matched grip towards the end of a song that he was playing with the Woody Herman Big Band. I found this to be incredibly weird, as I have seen him in clinics and live playing, and i've never seen him play matched. The next day, i saw him at a booth, and asked him about it after congradulating him on his preformance. He said he was mad at himself for switching, he just felt like he needed a lot of volume at the time and his body felt like it was the natural way of getting it. He said he saw no benifit in learning both grips.
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JamesC
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« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2003, 11:38 AM » |
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I'm one of those "corps snare guys" who grew up playing traditional. The fact that I played a million exercises using traditional grip from ages 15-21 "burned" the grip into me.
After I was done with corps I wanted to switch to matched, because it simply seemed to make more sense. Plus, a lot of the drummers I was into played on huge kits, and it seemed silly to play a huge kit with traditional grip.
Now that I feel 99% certain I'll never want to have a kit bigger than, say, 2 rack toms and 2 floor toms, I know I can get around pretty well with traditional.
I play about 75% traditional, 25% matched. There's something that feels good about traditional that I can't explain. Matched makes me feel like I'm in a 4x4 truck and can tackle the world. Traditional feels like I'm laying back in a convertible with the top down & sunglasses on.
That is only my personal opinion, of course. There's also something burned into my brain having to do with the fact that Stewart Copeland played traditional.
I will say that my left ring finger gets way more banged up playing traditional on drumset than it does playing snare drum - because on set the stick moves around more in my hand, while playing snare it stays in pretty much one spot relative to my hand.
One other thing - the only time on set I can think of where traditional is physically superior for me is while playing on the hi-hat with both hands. Maybe my hi-hat is just high or something, but to play matched on it, my left wrist gets cocked at a funny angle.
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-James Cuevas
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dogxray
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« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2003, 02:21 PM » |
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I see Neal Pert is in the process of changing from matched grip to traditional. So don't count out the trads yet. I recently had to change my grip. By change I mean I am still a trad grip player but It was not the correct way to hold them. I have been a trad player all my life but felt I was not getting the most out of my playing. I signed up for lessons with Brian McHugh a local teacher here who was a student of Greg Bisonette. I had to change my grip on both hands and go from Regal 2B stick to Vic Firth 7A. Thats like swinging at a baseball with a regular bat then trying it with a toothpick. It was the hardest thing I have ever done in drumming. But now I am there and man I play 100% better than I have in my life. More control better speed, and real clean hits around the kit
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Joe
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« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2003, 06:21 PM » |
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Felix Said:You mean our aim is supposed to be accurate when we play?  Well, it's a good skill to have, especially in the studio. Good aim helped Jim Gordon and Steve Gadd get work.
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I'm not a particularly slow player, yet I don't play fast. I play half-fast.
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