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Author Topic: Jazz patterns  (Read 588 times)
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tamaforever
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« on: July 31, 2003, 11:11 AM »

  My private lesson teacher who has his doctorate degree in percussion teaches his students when they are doing a swing beat in slow to moderate time to bring there stick up on counts 1 and 3 from the right of the cymbal to the left. On counts 2 and 4 hebrings the stick back down to create a rocking pattern. This done to create a flow in the groove. Well during the summer music which is a program where the kids in middle school play in lesson, band, and jazz band. In my jazz combo class the director who plays trumpet told me what the heck am I doing swinging like that. I understand there are many ways to "swing" but I think this is the best way to do it. Also he yelled at me because he sayed your rock your stick up when doin cross stick. Tell me your opinions on the way I play.
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« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2003, 12:03 PM »

Tell me your opinions on the way I play.

If it gets you the sound you want with no physical damage it is not wrong.  

Your jazz combo director sounds like one of the MANY "the way I know is the only right way" kinda people that makes it difficult for the rest of us.
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« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2003, 12:40 PM »

ha! yeah, mark got it.  i had a band director that was like this... luckily i didn't play drums at the time!  

when learning dificult beats my drum teacher makes me swing my right in a circle while riding so i keep the ride steady.  my right hand likes to follow my right foot on occasion and this makes it impossible for that to happen!  and i only pay 12 bucks a lesson!  from what i've heard this is an amazing price.
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Jon E
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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2003, 12:41 PM »

If it get s the point where it matters, you could mention that this is the way your teacher is teaching you.

Let him know that it isn't something you just dreamed up.

I'm neither here nor there on whether you should play up stroke on 1 and 3  or not.

Are you sure he wasn't talking about your HH foot toe??!!  Just kidding.  BUt the heel-toe-heel-toe 1-2-3-4 method for you HH foot IS a good method.
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Scott
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« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2003, 03:08 PM »

 My private lesson teacher who has his doctorate degree in percussion teaches his students when they are doing a swing beat in slow to moderate time to bring there stick up on counts 1 and 3 from the right of the cymbal to the left. On counts 2 and 4 hebrings the stick back down to create a rocking pattern. This done to create a flow in the groove. Well during the summer music which is a program where the kids in middle school play in lesson, band, and jazz band. In my jazz combo class the director who plays trumpet told me what the heck am I doing swinging like that. I understand there are many ways to "swing" but I think this is the best way to do it.

Actually, this is a technique used by many drummers when approaching playing rhythms on the ride or even the high-hat.  I've seen Mel Lewis, Ed Shaugnessy, Jeff Hamilton and many others play this way on the ride cymbal.  I've also seen plenty of rock drummers play straight 8th notes on the high-hat this way, too.  There's nothing wrong with it as long as you maintain using good wrist and finger technique as your playing nucleus and are achieving the sound you want to achieve.  

I personally use a similar technique to this when playing a jazz ride cymbal pattern at fast tempos (i.e. above bpm = 260).  The side-to-side wrist/arm motion helps keep my wrist and finger technique loose, not tightening up and not getting tired as quickly as I would if I kept my arm completely still.

You might want to check with your jazz combo teacher to see if he/she is having a problem with your playing in terms of sound or if he is just having a problem with your technique visually.  If the latter, simply explain it is how you are being taught.  As long as you sound good, he/she will get over the visual aspect.    

Also he yelled at me because he sayed your rock your stick up when doin cross stick. Tell me your opinions on the way I play.  


This one I'm not sure I understand what you are describing??  What does he/she mean by "rocking the stick up"Huh
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Poopypants
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« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2003, 08:47 AM »

If it gets you the sound you want with no physical damage it is not wrong.  

Your jazz combo director sounds like one of the MANY "the way I know is the only right way" kinda people that makes it difficult for the rest of us.

Words of wisdom!
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ritarocks
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« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2003, 03:15 PM »

when they are doing a swing beat in slow to moderate time to bring there stick up on counts 1 and 3 from the right of the cymbal to the left. On counts 2 and 4 hebrings the stick back down to create a rocking pattern. This done to create a flow in the groove.

True.  I seem to do that naturally on the ding', ding-da'-ding thing on the ride.
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SteamRhino
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« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2003, 03:20 PM »

the ding', ding-da'-ding thing ...
I love it when you get all technical Grin   just kidding, Rita....um...Ill go away now...(slink)
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ritarocks
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« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2003, 03:31 PM »

I love it when you get all technical Grin   just kidding, Rita....um...Ill go away now...(slink)

hehe Grin
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drwalker
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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2003, 12:43 PM »

"It don't Mean a Thing (If it ain't got that swing)"

- Max Roach
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« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2003, 01:23 PM »

This is traversing across the cymbal ... like skipping a rock over water. It's an old-school technique and most of today's jazz drummers no longer incorporate this technique. The reason is that you are not working with gravity, but rather skipping the stick over the Ride cymbal with a sweeping motion. Nothing wrong with the "skipping" approach, but you will always hear accents on beats 2 and 4. Works great for playing the standard jazz ride pattern, but try embellishing the rhythm using the technique. Very difficult indeed ... and now you know why it's outdated.

I still use the skipping technique when I want that particular sound, but general I focus on making vertical strokes, working with gravity and the natural rebound. Horizontal and/or sweeping strokes are difficult to control as well.

So if you need more backbeat in your Ride pattern, this sweeping technique is great, but I can do the same thing using only vertical motions. More modern jazz players tend to emphasize the quarter-note pulse ... working WITH the bass lines rather than against them.

Also, when using the sweep stroke, the following strokes diminish in volume ... again, like the rock skipping on water ... the first bounce is big, and gradually gets smaller. Using vertical strokes allows you to work with the rebound and gravity ... and with a little finger control, you can make every note speak ... and ONLY accent the ones you want ... not JUST beats 2 and 4.
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