I'm not sure exactly what other bands charge (different locations have different demands), but the band I'm in is an origional band and we get anywhere from $80 - $300 (on the rare occasion) for a single gig (45min set). Typically its around $100-150. We're a 4peice and the band takes 1/2 and we split the rest.

We also play covers, and that's normally about $100 an hour. Sometimes it changes based on the circumstances.

I know bands that get paid more and less... good luck with your business venture  

ok, thanx guys. I thought 300$ would be a whole lot but I guess I have underestimated this. So if we charge 100-150$, that should be ok.

Greetz, Snuf

In my local small town, most clubs usually pay a band around $400 for a 4 hour show, with 15 minute breaks each hour. Depending on the popularity of the band (mostly cover bands are what I'm familiar with) the fee may vary $50-100 one way or the other.

Bart makes a good point. To clarify, I was  talking about what the band makes. When my band is paid, we reserve 1/3 to 1/2 for the band to keep. We use this money for promotions, flyers, CD demos, etc.... the rest is then split between the members of the band.  

I'm in a 3-piece cover band and I cringe at going out doing 4 sets for less than $400. If I don't have to bring PA I can swallow $300 for 4 sets. We did 90 minutes for $300 not too long ago and PA was provided. Like all of you I have a lot of money invested in my kit. Between the bass player and myself we've got at least $15,000 in PA alone! (AND he JUST bought 2 new Mackie S1800's to add to that total!)Plus a pretty cool light show. We have a lot of time invested in the show we do. Rehearsal twice a week for 2 hours a pop. Then figure in load in and load out, a pair of sticks and the wear and tear on your gear. To me, if I'm not taking home AT LEAST $100 a man, I'm getting screwed! I know cover bands that get $3000 to $5000 a show and you HAVE to provide PA for them. The big problem is "Joe Shmoe" with his band WILL play for $100 bucks for his entire band!   That kills it for everybody. I tell these club owner when they gripe to me about $400 a show that they're getting the same price I charged 10 years ago! Most often that shuts them up. Heck! I'd just stay home and practice for any less than that. By the time you pay your gasoline, something to eat and replace the sticks you're going to wear out, you'd come out better staying home!   Another thing that kills me to is club owners will pay a traveling dj 100 to 150 and hour, but a band they want to pay 50 a man! LMAO! What a bunch of crap! I guess my whole point here is doing what Mr. A and Bart recommend. Ask other bands what they get and be careful not to go in and undercut them just to get the gig! You'll get "well I've never heard your band before". Hand them a tape, a CD or send them an mp3! But don't let them screw you! And they will! Every chance they get. There's probably 2 club owners I've met that I like and trust! All the others are liars and cheats! Ask for what the other bands get! Don't sell yourself short and make it hard for anyone to make money! It's tough out there bro! Make friends with the other bands and stick together on price! Don't screw each other! The club owners will have a feeding frenzy if you do!  

forget a lump sum figure.  I've found that it locks you in.  you charge club A $200 and put 18 of your friends in the room and you come away screwing the club and they won't have you back.  You charge club A $200 and 249 people show up?  You got took.

try to work a deal with the club that is beneficial to either party based on the actual success of the show and you'll be their favorite band ever.

tell the club you'd like to work a "door deal", taking a percentage of what the door takes in over and above a number that will cover the clubs cost.  If this sounds confusing, don't complain, just learn how it works because this is normally how it works for original bands that tour.  Here's an example:

if you expect a turnout of, say 100 people, and the club normally charges $5 at the door, this means you're expecting the door take to be $500.  It'd be nice to take it all, but the club is letting you use their PA and (hopefully) has spent some $ on promotion, so you need to give them an opportunity to recoup their money.  [So depending on how much the club says they're going to throw in on your show, adjust your percentage of how much of the door take you're getting]   If the club is going to probably spend $100 on flyers and such,  a reasonable percentage split would be...

"we'll take 80% of the door over $100", which means that if 20 people show up, you're getting nothing.  regardless of # of people attending, after the club takes in $100 at the door the split starts and whatever $ that comes in from then on  you take 80% of it.  This allows the club to make a little bread, and if you totally blow it out, you can make some good $.

Obviously this is just an example, and the deals will be different depending on how well you do, etc.

best of luck. try and get dinner in the meal, not just pizza.  go for a "buy out" of $10 per band/crew member to go get dinner on the clubs dime, rather than them just giving you crappy food there...

enjoy.

Kevin

The majority of the clubs I've played in (Boston mostly) have had door % deals. I think they run things closer to 40% or 50% of the door over 25 "people." Most clubs are around $8 to get in, but it's not much money unless you bring in everyone you know. Sometimes I could get them to do a split between a door % and a base fee. Like, $100 plus a smaller % of the door.

I agree louderdb. I posted this threath because I think we're being ripped of and I wanted to know what we should ask. On the other hand, wouldn't the people that come to see you're show be there anyway if it was a regular night. So what i'm saying is unless you're a famous band it isn't automatiq that more people come because there plays some band. So I think this is something that I should overthink show by show and place by place. Thanx for all you're replies, it helped a lot.........

Greetz, Snuf

I'm gonna throw in with Louderdb, and of course, with some of the other good, knowledgeable folks here.

Where I'm currently at in Northwest Indiana / Chicagoland, IMO bands sell theirselves WAY too cheap. We have local bands around here that'll play the evening (say 3 - 4 hours) for $150. They're a 3 pc., so that's $50 per man. IMO, that's ridiculous. And also IMO, it hurts every other local band in the region.

One thing I'd like to address, to which DrumGun referred, was "door fees". The club owners always seem to want a percentage of the door to "cover expenses" and "make a few bucks", 'cause these poor souls are gonna go out of business 'cause they have bands there.

To me, this is such a bucketful of baloney. In honesty, why should the club owner keep $1 of the door? I mean, if for instance, 250 people come through the door (let's say with a $5 cover) and spend let's just say an average of $20 / person on drinks, the owner is already raking in $5000. Doesn't THAT "cover expenses"??

NOW, he / she wants 20% or 50% of the $1250 taken in at the door? So the band is gonna get what $500, and the club owner takes in at least $5750, and they think that's fair? I mean, WHO are the people coming in to see? The club owner?

I'm all for the club owner making what they can, making a fair or even more than fair profit. But isn't the band ALSO entitled to make a fair profit? So, ya figure with $500 (for say a 4 pc. band), they'll take $100 off the top for expenses, and each walk away with $100 for the night (presuming there's just one band that night)?

That's sad enough that I don't really think it's even worthwhile to play local clubs any more. I mean, our lead singer and I also do live sound and lighting, and DJ work. We have a gig booked in a couple weeks as DJ for $700 for 3 hours. That's what we were offered, not "negotiated"!

Figure the same $100 off the top, and each of us are making $100 per hour, instead of the maybe $25 an hour that the local clubs want to pay for live bands. That's just nuts.

So we really just decline most local gigs, for this reason. I mean, YEARS ago as a duet a friend and I were making $150 a night EACH for a 4 hour gig. And that was maybe 25 years ago.

Seems like as a general group, we're going backwards with the money thing. Very disappointing.

That is does. Problem is, a new band if formed daily. They will take what they can get for a gig, because they don't know better.  People new to the business will not know what the going rate is, and normally it will take time before they learn by being exposed more & more to the scene.

experience is the best teacher

It probably depends on the area. Club owners in LA pay a hefty price to do business.

Rent: $14-$25,000 per month (Avg. $2.89-$3.25 per Rentable Square Foot, Full Service Gross or Triple-Net).
Parking: $8-$10,000 per month (if they have it).
Liquor License: $10-$15,000 per month
Advertising: $2-$4,000+ per month

Then there are salaries, Workers' Compensation insurance, property insurance, utilities, bartenders, security, and general maintenance. I'll bet there are things I've forgotten, but you get the idea. It's expensive to do business.

Fans pay $10-$20 to park, $7-$20 for ONE drink (2 drink minimum), and a $7-$15 cover charge.

Bands pay anywhere from $250 - $450 to play a 30-minute set. Should the band exceed ticket sales required to make the fee, then they have that in their own pockets before they even take the stage. In this case, it depends on how hard you hustle.

In the mid-range clubs, you must draw at least 20-30 or pay the difference to the door. Then you make $2-$3 a head after that.

Sure, we could play a low-end bar like McRed's in the Valley and make more money for less effort. We could also play cover tunes at weddings and clear BIG bucks. But it's not about that for us. It's about getting maximum exposure, all the while being in the pursuit of something greater than what can be made at the door.

For the experience in the smaller city, my college band played in and around Muncie, Indiana in 1984-85. We commanded $900-$1,500 per night at clubs like Papa Louie's Chug-A-Mug and made anywhere from $3-$7,000 for a house party on Frat Row (charging guys-only at the door).

But we didn't get to this level right away. We paid our dues, developed our fan-base, and then we had something to bargain with. Being able to guarantee a packed house of rabid drinkers does give you ample leverage. It doesn't hurt to become a savvy businessman with solid negotiation skills (stay in school!).

At our last gig, we could have made a few hundred bucks. Instead, we told the door man to let everyone in for free after we met the 20 required. We want to get more people interested in our original music so we can draw bigger next time, and even bigger the time after that.

For us, the money says nothing. Until it's in the form of a contract, it is meaningless. It's that crowd standing in front of us that speaks volumes.

So what does a band REALLY deserve to be paid? Depends on what they can draw and what they can negotiate.

First, if I screw up appropriately posting a quote or something, PLEASE bear with me. I'm relatively new here, so I'm still getting used to how this thing works. For instance, I'm still trying to learn to properly insert a quote. For now, I'll just "cheat", LOL.

From Louderdb:

"Man I'm lovin this guy!   Right on! Right on! Right on!"

LOL, thank you! Uh, if that was directed toward me.

Obviously, if you can't tell, while I understand the club owner has expenses, overhead, etc. I'm still primarily on the side of the musician. LOL, maybe 'cause I am one.

As for "paying your dues", I do NOT disagree with drumwild. But what IS "paying your dues"? I don't necessarily think it's playing every backwater bar for "$50+ beer", until someone FINALLY discovers you.

For my own "defense" here, and to make sure I'm not taken inaccurately, let me say that I'm just another friggin' drummer. I DON'T think that "I'm all that and a bag o' chips", or that I'm better or know more or whatever. I don't really have ANY ego about my playing, I just play and hope folks like what they hear. I HAVE been playing quite a few years (27 this year, and that's WITH a 16 year hiatus where I didn't even own a pair of drumsticks. Yeah, I'm an old dude, LOL), as many of you have. So we've ALL seen the good times and bad, and all have some success as well as some horror stories to tell.

But  what I'm seeing lately on the local music scene around here really disheartens me for ALL the local musicians, not just myself or our band. For ALL the dudes and dudettes, LOL.

IMO, any cat that tells me he's been playing 15 or 20 years (maybe 10 or 8, I don't know where the cutoff date would be) HAS paid his / her friggin' dues. You tell me you're in a working band, or a recording band, or playing with a big name, know what I see? I see a cat that's spent THOUSANDS of hours learning his instrument. A person who's spent god knows how many hours hitting auditions or jam nights or on the phone looking, searching and trying to find just that 'right' mix. They've spent YEARS honing and developing themselves in (likely) a drummer or guitarist that I would bestow upon them the ultimate compliment I can bestow upon a fellow musician. "Brother, you can PLAY".

And all this time and effort and headache and sometimes heartache (yeah, I've had relationships break up over my persuing the chance to play just ONE more time on stage), for WHAT? For $100 for a 4 hour set?

Drumwild, IMO reading his post, has PAID his doggone dues! So have MANY of you here, reading the various posts I've read. So why is it not fair for these same people to get p-a-i-d for their work?

This guy or that gal has spent years learning, educating and developing their TALENT, something which not just ANYONE can do, yet as a general rule we let others, some club owner or something, tell us it's only worth $100. Would a doctor let someone tell them that? Or a lawyer? Was YOUR skill any less difficult to gain than the lawyer down the street from you. 'Cause I'll bet it wasn't.

Sure, the bar owner has to make a buck to stay open. Understood, that's a given. But ONE of the reasons I'm (you, us, etc.) showing up "there" is to MAKE him a buck. But hey, it's NOT unfair for YOU to make a buck, too! In fact, truth be told, you should probably make MORE (after overhead is discounted), 'cause you likely have a lot more of your blood and sweat in your business than he has in his! Sorry, never heard of a bar owner sleeping in his car for 6 months trying to get his business up and running. I sure have heard of a lot of musicians doing that, or something similar. Just to pursue their craft.

Had a bar owner friend back in the early 80's ask me if my band would play at his club. He was doing pretty well, and several months before had told me he was hauling in about $20,000 a week, just for bottled Lite beer sales. He offered us $500 to play at his club. Sorry, I turned that down flat, even though I know that sounds egotistical. We were already getting (at the time) about 3 times that per gig. I wasn't insulted because of the $500, I was insulted that he offered so little when HE knew *I* knew what kind of money he was raking in, and would rake in.

Today, if someone we know is having a birthday party in their back yard, and we're asked to come play, fine. We'll come play for free. I'll go play at a jam night if someone says they'd like to hear me play, and the band isn't doing anything. Just because they were nice enough to say they'd like to hear me / us play. I'm honored and humbled by the fact that even one person would ask. But that's different. When it becomes a BUSINESS venture, then I think we as musicians should be compensated FAIRLY for what we do. Just as ANYONE else would expect.

I know SOME bands will play for nothing or almost nothing "for the exposure". Personally, I think that's foolhardy, penny-wise and pound foolish. You can get just as much exposure getting paid as you can playing for free. Had a couple of friends' bands (good bands, by the way) play at Taste of Chicago this year. For free, "for the exposure". LOL, they BOTH regret doing so now, and are NO further along, in popularity or financially, because of it. A multimillion dollar production, and they let themselves get talked into playing for ZERO dollars. Told them both the same thing, "That was stupid." Reluctantly, they agreed.

And there's a further downside, IMO. If you get yourself established as a band that plays for $150 ALL the time, guess what you're gonna get offered most of the time? 'Cause if you don't think the local club owners talk to one another, you're sorely mistaken. In fact, the 3 largest and most succesful club owners in our area all used to own ONE bar together! They pal around each others' bars all the time. Trust me, they talk!

Obviously, some folks will disagree, even vehemently perhaps. So these are just my own perspectives. But it's my opinion that if the bands would start learning to "band together" and realize that if *I* hacksaw our pay for a job, I'm also hurting THEIR band, and vice versa, then maybe it'll start to change. I think ONE good way to do this is talk about it here.

Thanks for reading this long post, if you did. It's something I strongly believe in.

Curiously enough, if ALL bands refused to "pay to play", they'd still be playing. If ALL bands refused to play for free, they'd still get gigs. And be making money. 'Cause the club owners may BRIEFLY say "Well, then I'm not having bands", but when business started seriously falling off, the club owners would change their tune, quickly.

In fact, when DJ's first came out, lots of musicians said "Oh, man. That's, it, that's the end of live music at the local level." Oddly enough, the reverse of that is true, and live music has been gaining in popularity over the last years.

When drum machines came out, drummers started panicking. "Oh man, we're all gonna be out a job. Better start learning to bag fries." But that hasn't really happened, has it? And drummers are pretty sought after in general, aren't they?

To me, to address another topic on the forum as well, when bands cutthroat each other and play for nothing, or worse PAY to play, THEN they're "selling out". They're giving themselves away, whoring out, or worse, PAYING to give themselves away! IMO, that's the worst form of "selling out", saying that one's time, energy, hardwork and creative energy are worth nothing. Or in the case of paying to play, LESS than nothing.

LOL, just a thought, but if ya gotta pay to get people to listen to ya, maybe it's not really worth listening to in the first place?

Just my thoughts, once again.

I think it's important to try to see all sides, AND be knowledgable of those sides prior to venting.  All of us, as musicians, get frustrated because the chips are, indeed, stacked against us.  All clubowners, however, are not out to get you.  Everyone here makes good points, and here are a few more from someone who is not only a professional drummer, but was involved with the ownership of a 1000 capacity venue.  

"who are they coming to see, the club owner?"  -where are they coming to see you, your backyard?  Like it or not, you and the much-hated clubowner are helping EACH OTHER.  They're not lucky to have you, because there's other bands.  You're not lucky to have them, there's other clubs.  The popularity or desirablilty of one will give it leverage over the other.


You can't use "beer sales" as the ever-popular swing vote.  One of the groups I play for has a young audience, and we can come to town, put 600 bodies in the room and not 1 of them will be drinking.  Not all shows are big bar $.

If you thought your band was the *hit and wanted to put on a show without using the evil club's resources, you can do it, just as soon as you find a place and rent it for the night, print up you tix, pay for some radio bumps, throw up some flyers, rent a PA, get a liquor & beer liscense, hire a security staff, build a stage, get a lighting rig, hire an electrician to hook everything up, pay for power or a generator, rent port o' johns or pay for water and sewage, buy insurance covering everyone in the venue (including jackasses and idiots)....  see where this is headed?  good.  It's a 2 way street, like it or not.  try and find the local club owner that doesn't suck and work a door deal with him, like I said before.