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Adam_
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« on: October 07, 2003, 10:29 PM » |
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What do you guys do to improve your speed for single bass? How can I improve my speed (32nd notes), power, and control? Any good books, rudiments, videos, etc??
I've wanted to improve my bass for a long time but have never posted on this board. Today, I saw an unbelievable guy at the Guitar Center drum off!. I couldn't quite see his hats and left foot, but I was watching his right foot and assumed he was using double bass. Regardless of how many pedals he used, he was amazing and quick as hell. When it was over, the guy said over the mic that the solo was done with one pedal. WOW!
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Winger
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2003, 10:43 PM » |
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I don't know of a particular routine to practice to work on speed, but I should find something myself. I've got a couple songs I play where I get the base pedal going pretty fast (probabbly 16th notes) and I'm done I can feel it all through the front of my lower-right leg for a few minutes. If I played those regularly I'd probably never notice it, but once every week or so gives the muscles too much time to relax, so I feel it again the next I play the same parts.
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Floyd42
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« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2003, 03:16 AM » |
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Gain speed with feet (and with hands), requires time and practice.
My practice routine to improve my bass foot is doing rudiments with my feet, as I do with my hands.
I begin at slow tempo (e.g. 60bpm), and when I get confident with the rudiment I play at this tempo, I increase the tempo (e.g. 70bpm). And so on.
And to gain control ovr my bass foot, I try to accent some notes, as I do with my hands working on rudiments !
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psycht
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« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2003, 03:21 PM » |
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I used the old stand by:
1- metronome
1- foot
1- pedal
16th notes for 1 minute. repeat often.
gradually speed up.
then try 16th note triplets. doted 16ths, etc...
wash, rince, repeat.
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BBJones
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« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2003, 03:33 PM » |
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Work from slow to fast as you would with your hands... But more importantly work from super fast to slow. It is a totally different technique to get really fast single foot (400 notes/minute or more). It would generally be nothing like the technique you use at slower tempos of say 70bpm. The really hard part is trying to make both techniques meet in the middle, there is a transition period there where you will have a really hard time controlling your foot. That takes the most practice. As always, you will need to find what works for you but here's what I do: - pedal config doesn't matter much - heel low, not down (maybe 1 inch up) - ball of foot contacting pedal near the toe-stop (if you have one) - foot placement on the board is used to control your tempo (forward = faster, back = slower) - Use only the front calf muscle. The rest of your leg should be completely relaxed. Then try to find the natural tempo that you can start with. Think how you would do a relaxed fast single roll with your hands (accenting every note). Do the same with your foot. Use only your ankle for motion driven by your shin flexing. This takes a lot of practice to finally get the right feel. But once you do, you can sit and do 32nds for 5 minutes or more if you want to. Next you would start accenting and working more control once you have the basic roll down. Then work on both feet doing a RLRLRLRL roll. Wickedly fast! Practie a lot of heel down to build up those shin muscles as well. This takes a lot of practice (as with anything to do with drums). Dedicate yourself to finding a way to make it work for you, don't give up and try to work on it 5-6 days a week for at least 4 months. Hope that helps  |
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random
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2003, 07:10 PM » |
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you'll be fastest on a small bass with a tight, stiff, thick head. I can play on a 16" almost as fast I can double bass on a pair of 22"s. it amazed me when I tried it.
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BBJones
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2003, 09:27 AM » |
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interesting point random. I actually have plywood on the front of my BD skin so the size of drum makes no difference to me Why you say? I trigger the kick drum. I use plywood for contact between the beaters and the trigger for maximum sensitivity with minimum false triggers (like from the bass guitar vibrating my BD skin etc). Works great! |
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Adam_
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2003, 05:26 PM » |
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Question: For rudiments, do you do drags? How do you play the quick grace note? Seems like feet wouldn't allow for that type of technique. I assume one cannot get the same perfection out of rudiments from the feet as from the hands.
Also, the question that is always asked: Shoes or no shoes? I wear Airwalk skater shoes, which are pretty bulky and give me more power. My pedals are pretty heavy, being a fairly cheap Pacific double pedal. I just don't know...
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BBJones
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2003, 05:51 PM » |
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Question: For rudiments, do you do drags? How do you play the quick grace note? Seems like feet wouldn't allow for that type of technique. I assume one cannot get the same perfection out of rudiments from the feet as from the hands.
Also, the question that is always asked: Shoes or no shoes? I wear Airwalk skater shoes, which are pretty bulky and give me more power. My pedals are pretty heavy, being a fairly cheap Pacific double pedal. I just don't know...
You play quick grace notes after having practiced them This for example:  Building up a good double-stroke take more time than single stroke coordination. It is quite easy once you get the hang of it. Image from: http://www.vicfirth.com/education/rudiments/36dragparadiddle1.htmlHeavy pedals will be much better than cheap light ones. The heavier the pedal, the better control you will have but perhaps not quite as much speed (not going to lose much). You should be able to play almost the same with your feet as you do with your hands. Look at your feet and your hands and take note of the physical differences and how they operate making strokes. If you practiced with your feet as much as you do with your hands...  I have seen an arm-less drummer once. Yes, no arms. He sat on his but, and had sticks between his toes (traditional style for both). He was absolutely amazing! Not becuase "wow look what you can do with your feet" but more like if you close your ears, his footwork was better than most drummers hand work. Bottom line you will only be limited by how much you practice and if you allow yourself to give up on trying to figure something out. Oh and about footwear, lighter will be faster. Working with heavy footwear will help build muscle, but also work with lighter foot wear for top speed. |
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Big12Tiger
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2003, 12:17 AM » |
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I copied in below my reply to a similar question from over on the general board. The guy who wrote the book I refer to, Mike Packer, is ridiculously fast with a single pedal. Anyway, here it is:
"Hey there. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. If you want to work on bass drum technique, there's a really great book that's kind of hard to find. It's called Feet First and it's written by a guy named Mike Packer. I know that jazzers play heel down a lot, but this is a great way to accomplish the same thing with less effort.
The book is mostly about playing heel up and out of the head (thus giving you the most power and tone). There are 2 strokes with BD technique - the ankle stroke (just like heel down, only your heel is up - think like dribbling a basketball with your foot) and the down stroke (basically your heel comes up, the toes and ball of your foot provide the stroke by using the weight of your leg coming down, and then your heel comes back down to rest). I know this is hard to get by reading, but bear with me.
SO, those quick doubles you're trying to get (if you're playing heel up) are accomplished by an ankle stroke, followed immediately by a down stroke. If you're playing heel down, then you just have to get faster. However, the heel up technique by Packer can generate incredible speed.
Hit me back if you want more info on the book."
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BringerOfJollity
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« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2003, 07:26 PM » |
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The Steve Smith DVD "Drumset Technique/History of the U.S. Beat" demonstrates an exercise which was taught by Freddie Gruber in which rocking the foot gave a double stroke. Combined with the left foot, you can create ungodly speed. Smoothness and fluidity is the key.
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ARCHxANGEL
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« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2003, 10:48 PM » |
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Hm fast single bass foot.I can't explain how I got fast I just kinda played and still play all the time.But I would say to play to music and the best way to get that foot going is to play Led Zeppelin.John Bonham used single bass and he had a fast foot and did some cool stuff.Some of it even gets me hurting even today and I have been playing for 6 years.
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jokerjkny
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« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2003, 12:54 AM » |
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this thread soooo rocks...  |
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...this aint no time fo' jibba jabba!
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MrDrums
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« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2003, 05:41 AM » |
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http://community.drummercafe.com/index.php?board=8;action=display;threadid=4643In 3 words: practice, practice,practice! There's no secret solution, I've discovered that the hard way. There are several exercises you can work on for that purpose, but in general you should always try to stay loose and not tense up, and also play with your foot on the lower half of the pedal.
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thelimpingtoad
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« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2003, 01:09 PM » |
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Here's what I did when I finally got sick of having a dbl kick pedal. I took it off my set and threw it across the room. I realized that I never used the left pedal for drags, triplets, 16's etc. So what was the point of having it? Anyway. I highly recommend buying the new zeppelin dvds and the song remains the same. Pay close attention to how bonham uses a single kick to do split triplets across the toms. The idea is to overlap the downbeats. Meaning your right hand & kick play the first note, your left hand plays the second, and you play the last one with your kick.
sounds easy. Wait until you try to do it fast. Any how, practice that with a metronome and do things like split 16's between hands and foot. (double strokes, single strokes, paradiddles...) before you know it you'll be playing all sorts of crazy things with your right foot.
Hope that helps.
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newbeat
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« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2003, 02:02 PM » |
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I've been practicing bass drum double strokes with my right foot lately, and have found that are tons of different techniques you can use. I'll post all the ones I know and what I've been having success with: -heel-toe: I've had by far the most success with this (also the world record holder Tim Waterson for double bass double strokes uses this and says it is the easiest technique). It doesn't matter what size feet you have- at first I thought my feet were too big but then I realized you don't actually hit the bottom with your heel. Instead, with your toes on the pedal and heel up, you bring your foot and the pedal down, releasing your toes at the same time. This is your first note, and releasing your toes lets the pedal up for your second stroke that you can whip down with your toes. -sliding up: This one also works pretty well but is not nearly as consistent for me because you have to move your foot and you don't always get a clean slide. It seems like it could work really well though, check out this video of Paul Elliot on drummerworld using it (he does it slowly first and then speeds up later): http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/PaulElliott.htmlAlso in my area there is a drummer who uses this and he has a KILLER double stroke, with a single pedal he can do hand-hand-foot-foot quads way faster than most people can with a double pedal. -sliding right: This one also looks quite promising- I do the first stroke and then slide just a tad right on the footboard to snap down the second. The problem with this is you need to really work up your muscles to get a clean, efficient and consistent double-snap motion in your ankle, heel-toe is still working a lot better for me. -pivoting ankle: I think virgil donati uses something related to this, basically you have your foot on the lower part of the board and you pivot your ankle to get two strokes. Haven't really tried it out but it seems to work pretty well from just messing around with it though. Basically all of the ones I know involve doing some kind of motion to generate the second stroke for you. I think heel-toe is the way to go though, it is easier to play because it doesn't require any up-down or side-side movement. |
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bongo
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« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2003, 05:41 PM » |
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Good discussion here, thanks
Here are some observations from me.
I use heel down, heel up, and heel toe. They all have strengths.
For power and speed on a double stroke, heel toe is the way to go.
For the fastest single strokes, heel up works for me.
For articulation of combinations I often keep my heels down.
I too like to practice rudiments with my feet. I'll do double strokes, shift to singles and paradiddles, shift smoothly, all the while maintaining time on the cymbals and snare.
Another thing I do is maintain a moderate pace, then attack at double time for short bursts.
Being able to explode into a beat is important, so I practice silence, then sudden explosions. Funny how this thing can trip up a well practiced routine.
I've learned also rudiments aren't for their own sake; it is about freeing me to play what I feel. I don't think about rudiments when I play music, and I don't practice fills to blindly apply. I listen hard to the music and let that move me. And if so moved, thanks to a lot of practice, I CAN explode into ripping combinations between hands and feet.
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DrumerFromSysinoid
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« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2003, 05:55 PM » |
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What do you guys do to improve your speed for single bass? How can I improve my speed (32nd notes), power, and control? Any good books, rudiments, videos, etc??
one question..are you practicing right now? you should be, whenever you've got a chance to practice single or double kick while ur doing something else then do it, I have a pedel set up at the comp so I can always be practicing it |
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Carn
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« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2003, 06:32 PM » |
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well, I've been going trough Colin Baileys "Bassdrum Control" book, alot of good exercises that will help no matter what technique.. I play heel down, and can play 16th notes around 85 bpm for quite a while, so working on your technique daily really helped for me (left foot is another story).
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GoYammy
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« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2003, 08:21 PM » |
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just a tip, if you have a double bass pedal, take it away, or at least disconnect the slave, force yourself to use only one pedal and dont be afraid to mess up, it comes with time.
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BBJones
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« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2003, 10:23 AM » |
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I wouldn't recommend that, Yammy. Just becuase you have 2 pedals doesn't mean you should be using them all the time You have 2 hands right? You don't tie one hand behind your back to practice with the other... If you do have double pedals, you SHOULD practice everything you do with your right foot, with your left. I like to try and play left handed during simple beats (cause I can't do it during the complicated ones ) I actually find that my double bass is way tighter when I switch back and forth leading with either foot. It seems to keep the slave foot warmed up and in time with what I'm doing, instead of just using it for the double bass stuff. It helps to add a level of constant independance. Here's a good one... Played at any tempo where the hands fall on whatever steady beat you like. 1/8 note and triplet combinations: The feet... 4/4 right foot on the 1, 2, 3, 4, left foot on the &'s R L R L R L R L Use a triplet on the last beat leading with the right of R L R which leads your next 4/4 8th note pattern with your left foot L R L R L R L R then reverse the triplet fill L R L then back to the first pattern with the right foot leading Try it with your feet first to get the feel of changing between triplets and 8th nothes. Then add in basic hand coordination since you will be changing from leading with your left to your right which can likely make your brain say something like "nope not gonna do it!" So here's the pattern again without all my talking... "//" breaks up each bar The note in caps are hitting the 1/4 note beat and play the 4th beat in every second bar as a triplet (R-l-r or L-r-l) // R-l R-l R-l R-l // R-l R-l R-l R-l-r // L-r L-r L-r L-r // L-r L-r L-r L-r-l // repeat... You can then have fun increasing the length of the triplet feel sections... and lots of other things |
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jokerjkny
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« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2003, 03:05 AM » |
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I wouldn't recommend that, Yammy. Just becuase you have 2 pedals doesn't mean you should be using them all the time You have 2 hands right? You don't tie one hand behind your back to practice with the other... (...) good thought BB, tho I see your point, your two feet also do other things down there, not just bass stuff. so, being able to do fast doubles, triples, etc. with your right foot, would free up your right foot for other fun stuff for high hat work and maybe even clave stuff, no? also, I love hearing those super cool double pedal triplets, my bud pulls off with such ease, which are the result of fast double strokes on the right foot. so, working on single pedal work can take even much of your double pedal playing into deeper territory. |
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...this aint no time fo' jibba jabba!
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BBJones
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« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2003, 11:31 AM » |
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Most definitely agree, Joker. You should be practicing all of it. And not just finesse with the right foot, but with the left as well. Even if you don't have 2 pedals. I'm working on a solid 8th and 16th note beats with my right foot where I can sound like I'm keeping a solid double bass drum line but actually only doing it with one foot. This allows me to free up my left for some HH work. A good exercise for left foot control on the hats: Think about a basic jazz beat on the hats. p = left foot step (closed) x = blank note o = left foot step (sustain) I'll put the triplet groupings in parenthesis... so a triplet would be: (p-p-p) (p-p-p) or with double bass pedals... (r-l-r) (l-r-l) so then a basic jazz beat on the hats with just the left foot... (p-x-p) (p-x-p) Now the trick is to make the first step on every soconde triplet an open hat note that sustains for the entire second triplet... (p-x-p) (o-x-x) Practice that with just your left foot. This then allows you to free up an entire hand since you would usually use your right hand to strike the hats. Then get your right foot doing triplets and doubles and you can sound like you have 2 extra limbs since you have a complete rythym going with just your feet. Then add in your hands doing whatever your brain will let you do  Perhaps to start working the left foot in being able to do it's own hi-hat sustains, just work in single 1/4 notes. p - p - p - p Then, start controlling the open hat step. You basically step quickly and release to cause your hats to ring and stay open. Sustain on the 1st and 3rd notes, while closing the open hat strike on the 2nd and 4th. o - p - o - p That make sense? I'm sure I'm not using the proper terminology but I hope you can follow my kindergarten attempts at writing out some patterns If your left foot is good at doubles this should be pretty easy. If your left foot isn't, this is a good exercise to develop it without having to use double bass drum pedals. |
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