Fed
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« on: November 11, 2003, 11:12 AM » |
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Since I don't have anyone to play with I figured I'll try and learn playing clave/cowbell paterns with my left foot while playing conga. I've seen Bobby Sanabria do that in the video I have.
Does anyone has suggestions/exersises/book for working on independance between foot and hands?
Thanks
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Jon E
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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2003, 11:16 AM » |
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I'll give the same advice in your situation as I'd give in a drumset situation:
SLOW DOWN.
Take the patterns very slowly at first. This will help you get a feel/hear for how the parts fit together--both musicaly and muscularly. That is, how your body are functioning in relation one another.
Writing out the parts can be a good visual too an where the parts/notes/beats/limbs fall in relation to others.
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Fed
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« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2003, 11:35 AM » |
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Thanks Jon
I wonder if there is technique to learn independance, ie I wouldn't have to relearn to play conga patterns with the foot playing clave but rather learn to play clave independent of what the hands are doing.
I'm going to do it either way, but wondered if there is a different method.
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Drumlooney
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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2003, 02:29 PM » |
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check out the book "Conversations in Clave" by Horacio El Negro Hernandez he is the king of left foot clave. And like Jon E suggested slow down. One thing you need to remember is that you should be able to do clave independently with your hands first before you try to do it with your feet.
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windhorse
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« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2003, 06:50 AM » |
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Good luck! I'm just now starting to get a handle on Rumba Clave just with claves or bell, and jeeze,, That's a slippery devil!  We sometimes play rhythms where the regular clave starts on the 3 or somewhere else in a 4/4, or heaven forbid, a 6/8.. That really tweaks my mind, and that's not seperating body parts.  |
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Fed
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« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2003, 07:41 AM » |
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Yea I hear you, I was able to tap Rumba or Son clave pretty good with tumbao, but haven't tried much beyond that. I just got a bass drum pedal I didn't realise how many little ajustments are on that thing. I'll have to play with it to see what feels good. I figure those LP plastic blocks are pretty loud so I can probably ajust the bitter to be close to it so I don't have to move my foot too much. Maybe I can just attach a peace of 2x4 (or other "tone" wood ) to it for that authentic woodblock sound.  I have a book caled Afro-Cuban Polyrythms and it's has main clave patterns in it. Can't wait to get to it.  |
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2003, 08:33 AM » |
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What I've done is just write out my own exercises.
I start a particular clave pattern with my left foot, then play a wide variety of rhythms against it ... including soloing. Any time I have a problem ... I write out the patterns along with the clave pattern so I can SEE where everything is supposed to line up.
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Fed
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« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2003, 03:35 PM » |
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Bartman,
what do you use for wood block and beater when you play clave or cowbell with your foot?
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2003, 05:10 PM » |
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Bartman,
what do you use for wood block and beater when you play clave or cowbell with your foot?
With the LP Gajate Pedal, I've used several different things for the "clave" sound ... - LP Jam Blocks (both sizes)
- LP Blast Block
- Chinese Temple Block (using my homemade clamp)
- Ludwig Wood Block (using my homemade clamp)
As far as beaters go, I have two that I use a lot: VATER Poly Ball (kick drum beater) and the VATER Cowbell Beater. The cowbell beater is cool because it is basically a stick with some rubber padding on opposite sides. You can rotate the beater so that you have a wood or rubber striking surface on the beater. The poly ball beater is stinkin' loud man ... great for large venues with no micking on the block(s)! A standard felt beater is just too muffled sounding on any of these blocks. I do have a small felt beater that works well; the sound is focused but dull, which is good for small venues or practice. Here's photos of both, respectively:   |
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random
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« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2003, 08:59 PM » |
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how much do the pedal mounts for those cost? I've always wanted to experiment with them.
double cowbell....
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2003, 09:40 PM » |
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how much do the pedal mounts for those cost? I've always wanted to experiment with them.
double cowbell....
Are you asking about the Gajate bracket? If so, do a search and see what they cost. I don't remember as I got mine a long time ago ... back when I had a drum shop. |
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Fed
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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2003, 11:32 AM » |
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Thanks Bartman,
What about the tambourine. What kind and what beater? I have a coffee-house gig coming up and I am thinking adding a tambourine to play with my foot while I play congas. The songs are mostly contemporary worship so I don't know if woodblock sound would be fitting. Any thoughts on that?
The Gajate brakets are $40 at Guitar Center. I had my brother make me something simular out of aluminum works well so far.
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2003, 11:53 AM » |
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Thanks Bartman,
What about the tambourine. What kind and what beater? I have a coffee-house gig coming up and I am thinking adding a tambourine to play with my foot while I play congas. The songs are mostly contemporary worship so I don't know if woodblock sound would be fitting. Any thoughts on that?
I've used the RhythmTech DST tambourines (nickel and brass versions) a lot with the Gajate bracket, and feel that a felt beater in this case works better. Unless you are wanting the "click" of the attack, the felt beater helps the sound to be more about the jingles and less of an attack. Also be aware that with a felt beater and the tambourine ... there's a greater potential for mishap. This is because the tambourine has some 'give' to it, and the playing area (the edge) is very small. If you press into the tambourine with the beater, it will slip through and be stuck! At low volumes, you probably won't have this problem. One mention about the tambourine ... it's going to be loud and sloppy in a small venue. Because the jingles are vertical, rather than horizontal, due to the mounting position, the jingles will ring a long time; it's not going to be dry. You may need to throw a small towel or something over a portion of the tambourine to help dampen some of the jingles ... especially if you are in a venue the size of a small coffee shop. Another thing that I do is to NOT use the Gajate bracket. I take a regular hand-held tambourine, lay it on the floor, then position my foot on and throw it (I'll have to show you a pic sometime) so that I can play the tambourine with my foot. Not only is an easy solution, but the tambourine is horizontal ... so it's going to be a dry, quieter sound. There are seveal different ways that I position my foot to accomplish all of this; there's not just one way to do it ... so experiment if you are up to the task.  |
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Fed
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« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2003, 12:20 PM » |
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Thanks for great response.
I'll have to try just steping on it. Tha might be all I need.
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random
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« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2003, 03:55 PM » |
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The Gajate brakets are $40 at Guitar Center. I had my brother make me something simular out of aluminum works well so far.
thanks! mind if I ask how he made it? I've got connections with some metal workers. |
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Fed
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« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2003, 08:11 AM » |
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It's made very simple.
The botom is square aluminum block about 4'' by 4'' and 1/2'' thick
with one side milled out on the bottom about 1/2'' into the block
and 1/4'' of off the thickness of the block.
Then there is about 12'' long 2'' wide plate with 3/8'' grove milled in the middle. The plate is bolted to the block on the side oposite of blocks groove.
Then there is 3/8 threded rod about 4'' long that goes into the groove on the plate and you mount the blocksetc on it.
I'll try to post a pic or two later.
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windhorse
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« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2003, 01:18 PM » |
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What are some practices, drills, and notation that you guys are using for clave alongside something else?
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Hollow a log into a drum. It's the space inside that makes the sound. |
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Fed
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« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2003, 02:12 PM » |
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Well, I just started with this so can't say too much but what realy helps me so far is saying clave while playing and then trying play my foot. It realy helps a lot. I feel it's easier because I'm more concentrated on how clave fits and grooves with the pattern rather then actual coordination of foot and hands. Hope this makes sence. So far the tumbao is the easiest for me. I can pretty much do it with tumbao. Other then that I just pick a pattern I know well and try it with clave. IE play... play... play... (my poor wife... all that banging... I put towel over the conga) cheers |
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Fed
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« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2003, 02:14 PM » |
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Forgot to mention that it's just alot of fun when you finaly get your hands and foot to grove together .... awesome dude...  |
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windhorse
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« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2003, 03:07 PM » |
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I'm still just dealing with hands - and look forward to feeling advanced enough to try feet. The latest exercise is Guaguanco - Tumba & Conga with left hand, and Rumba clave with the right. It's tough for me - especially fitting the the 2nd Conga tone between the last two clave hits. Here's the notation. The filled notes are bass, the open notes are tones, the stick looking objects are the clave, it's in 4/4, and the flag should point the other way.  Here's my lame attempt on a sound file. Just slapping the side of the drum for clave Please remember, I'm new at this! http://animaldreams.net/cong/quaclavsmall.mp3 |
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Hollow a log into a drum. It's the space inside that makes the sound. |
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