Bart Elliott
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« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2003, 02:36 PM » |
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The latest exercise is Quaguanco - Tumba & Conga with left hand, and Rumba clave with the right. Wicked stuff - especially fitting the the 2nd Conga tone between the last two clave hits.
Here's the notation.
Just a quick correction ... or two: The first note should be a dotted-quarter-note, and the second note's flag needs to go to the right of the stem, not the left. I'm sure you were just quickly writing this out, but the clarity is needed if someone is going to read this ... especially those who may not already know this rhythm, which is who this is really for anyway.  Also, just for fun, you can do something a little unconventional by reversing the clave against the Guaguanco pattern. Just something else to work on, even though you'll get beat up outside if you try this on a Afro-Cuban gig. Ah yes, it's Guaguanco (pronounced gwa-wahn-KOH), not Quaguanco ... which sounds like a possible name for a Star Wars jedi. Perhaps it's just a typo or you read your teachers hand writing incorrectly. One thing that I do is verbally say the clave' pattern while playing the hand drum part; use syllables, numbers or mimic the clave sound. Once I get this down, I then add the clave' part with my foot. Being able to first verbalize these types of things seems to speed up the learning process. May not work for everyone, but it has helped me over the years, as well as many of my students. For an added challenge, play clave' with the foot, whatever hand pattern you are wanting to use (ie. Guaguanco) ... but count 1 2 3 4 out-loud. Not only does this help ground you mentally and physically, but it's great to be able to shout out the pulse for students and/or any newbie musicians not familiar with the style ... and unable to find where beat 1 is! 
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Fed
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« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2003, 04:55 PM » |
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Ok, I have a picture of homebrew bracket but I can't post it here from home. So if you really want it PM me and I'll email it. I can post on monday from work.
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windhorse
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« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2003, 06:57 PM » |
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Hollow a log into a drum. It's the space inside that makes the sound. 
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« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2003, 07:34 AM » |
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I have clave independence with my hands because I've been doing it for a long time, now for doing clave with my left foot I started out just doing exercises with my hand while playing the 2-3 clave with my foot, this help me out a lot and now I'm getting better at playing left foot clave while playing, I feel that it's because I was able to do it while doing my rudiments. One last thing, trying doing your rudiments while playing clave with your left foot and saying your ABC's. This will help you with your independence.
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You don't practice one day no one notices, you don't practice two days you notice, you don't practice three days everyone notices.
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windhorse
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« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2003, 05:14 PM » |
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Practicing daily the conga/tumba with left hand and clave with right, but one of my friends suggested I change the tumba hit on the one count to the 8th note after it to simulate the quinto hit. That was really tough at first, but it has become second nature. A second exercise with the clave on the left hand is doubly reinforcing the rumba clave, and the elusive quinto ride is now almost possible when we play as a group.
Just for the fun of it, I'm including some ASCII block notation for the two exercises.
I'm using a 4/4 beat measure divided into 16th notes. X - stick strike O - tone B - bass S - slap
First exercise: Tumba & Conga played with left hand, Clave with right.
Right hand Clave X--X---X--X-X--- Left hand Tumba -S-B--O-------O- Left hand Conga ---------O--O----
Second exercise: Clave played with left hand, Quinto ride with right.
Left hand Clave X--X---X--X-X--- Right hand Quinto -S-----O---S---- Â Â Â -O-----S---O----
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Fed
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« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2003, 07:48 AM » |
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Well since this thread is still alive I am going to report on my "clave with the foot" aspirations. After trying it for a little while now I found that I do have to learn it with every beat from scratch... witch is a drag... but it's great once you get it. There is this "Son" rithm in the book I have that starts on the "and of 1". I learned it but never really could get it grooving. Last night I tried with foot clave .... what a difference??? once I got it ... it was great...
I don't have anyone to play with and having small kids it's hard to get out .... so this is realy a great way for me to get a feel for the real thing.
Another example 3-2 or 2-3 clave. On paper I didn't realy see a big difference, but when I tried with tumbao it was like two different rithms even though you play same thing with you hands and feet.
Anyway I recomend this for "bedroom" congueros like me. It's hard at first but once you get it going it's very cool.
And once againg saying the clave first while playing is the key to getting it for me.
oh yea... windhorse thanks for those patterns I might try that.
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windhorse
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« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2003, 06:23 AM » |
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oh yea... windhorse thanks for those patterns I might try that.
Careful, if you're going by my sound clip! My third Clave hit is too early. Also, I think my notation was correct, except for a missing 8th rest between the first two notes. I'm finding that though I am generally a fast learner with things I'm highly motivated to learn, like Rumba, my clave still needs tweeking. I kept wanting to hit the third note too soon. Now that I'm working on it every day, and figure that I might comfortably be able to play all the parts of Guaguanco in maybe a year. So far to go, and yet so much fun learning. 
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windhorse
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« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2003, 04:30 AM » |
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The latest exercise is Guaguanco - Tumba & Conga with left hand, and Rumba clave with the right. It's tough for me - especially fitting the the 2nd Conga tone between the last two clave hits. Here's my lame attempt on a sound file. Just slapping the side of the drum for clave Please remember, I'm new at this! http://animaldreams.net/cong/quaclavsmall.mp3Here's a new and improved soundfile! Instead of hand, it's a stick, there's a few doubles with the high conga, and the timing is much more accurate. A few weeks of practice makes a world of difference! http://animaldreams.net/cong/quaclavsmall.mp3
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Fed
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« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2004, 10:26 AM » |
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windhorse, I was trying 1st pattern with tumba and conga. It proved quite challenging. Just wanted to verify that I got it right from your chart, here it's in same width font, so that placement is more precise: count: 1 a 2 a 3 a 4 a 1 a 2 a 3 a 4 a clave: x x x x x tumba: S B O O conga: O O
Also on the recording it sounds like the first one is the one on the chart and then it's different???
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windhorse
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« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2004, 11:26 AM » |
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Yes, your notation is as right as you can show it with 8th notes. You can get more precise with 16ths, or two bars like Bart says. And, Yes, you're right, the first bar only has one conga tone between the last two clave strikes, then the rest have two tones there. That's just a variation for the exercise. count: 1 a 2 a 3 a 4 a 1 a 2 a 3 a 4 a
I think to understand it you'll need 16th notes. So, the Clave hits on the 1, a, a, &, then the 4. Just getting the clave right is huge! The first slap is really supposed the quinto, so isn't really part of the real tumba/conga guaguanco, but I like to put it in for the fun of it. I believe that the first quinto hit is dead center between the first two clave strikes. So, the notation sort of fails to reproduce the exact sound. The first bass of the tumba is on the one, then the second is with the clave on the "a". The third tumba hit is a tone just before the third clave strike, then the last is after the last clave. I put it on the and, because to my ear, the last tone seems to wait a bit after the clave. The high conga hits on the 3, and the "a" between the last two clave strikes. Pretty cool that someone here is trying this!!! It's such an interesting complex rhythm. Here's the best I can do with notation: count: 1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a 4 e & a clave: X X X X X tumba: S B O O conga: O O
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2004, 11:33 AM » |
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I personally think it's best to notate this as a two-bar pattern.
Clave patterns are typically notated as two-bar patterns ... hence the 3/2 or 2/3 versions. The same goes with the Guaguanco rhythm.
When you play this rhythm in a song, it's traditional going to take two-bars to complete the rhythm ... not one-bar.
Also ... a traditional way to play the opening bar that you all notated ... would be to play two slaps before the bass tone.
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windhorse
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« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2004, 12:04 PM » |
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I personally think it's best to notate this as a two-bar pattern.
Can we see an example the notation with two-bar? Thanks, BTW, I had to go back to the modify button a few thousand times just to line the Xs,, and still couldn't get them to synch up right. I tried it with the "pre" tag and different sizes. Jeeze... Is this common?
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2004, 12:35 PM » |
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Can we see an example the notation with two-bar? Thanks, BTW, I had to go back to the modify button a few thousand times just to line the Xs,, and still couldn't get them to synch up right. I tried it with the "pre" tag and different sizes. Jeeze... Is this common?
I play the slaps on the conga ( tres golpes), as well as the bass tone, but it could be played on the tumba ( salidar). Do whatever you want really when playing all the parts by yourself. Here's what I would do: count: | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & || clave: | X - - X - - - X | - - X - X - - - || conga: | - S - B - - - - | O - - O - - - - || tumba: | - - - - - - O - | - - - - - - O - ||
Notice that I notated the conga on top since it's higher in pitch than the tumba. Use the typerwriter feature to get the symbols to line up. All fonts are different sizes. The typerwriter keeps the spacing the same. The code would be like this: [tt]your tab notation[/tt] Here's the way I play Guaguanco; a little more complex, but really grooves: count: | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & || clave: | X - - X - - - X | - - X - X - - - || conga: | - S S B - - - S | O - S O - S - - || tumba: | - - - - - - O - | - - - - - - O - ||
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windhorse
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« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2004, 03:30 PM » |
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I play the slaps on the conga ( tres golpes), as well as the bass tone, but it could be played on the tumba ( salidar). Do whatever you want really when playing all the parts by yourself. Here's what I would do: count: | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & || clave: | X - - X - - - X | - - X - X - - - || conga: | - S - B - - - - | O - - O - - - - || tumba: | - - - - - - O - | - - - - - - O - ||
Notice that I notated the conga on top since it's higher in pitch than the tumba. Use the typerwriter feature to get the symbols to line up. All fonts are different sizes. The typerwriter keeps the spacing the same. The code would be like this: [tt]your tab notation[/tt] Here's the way I play Guaguanco; a little more complex, but really grooves: count: | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & || clave: | X - - X - - - X | - - X - X - - - || conga: | - S S B - - - S | O - S O - S - - || tumba: | - - - - - - O - | - - - - - - O - ||
Very cool! Still so much to learn!! Funny thing is that our notation is already in two bar form, and I've just been leaving out the seperator in the middle because I couldn't reproduce it in ascii. But your post has certainly remedied that!  The thing is a huge hint that solves everything! Also, using the dashes for the beats is obviously much better than just spaces.
Yes, we use the tres golpes with lots of palm touches, with the left hand touches sometimes accented with a slap instead of a touch.
Did your hint about moving the conga line above the tumba mean that is proper music form to always have higher tones above lower?
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2004, 03:38 PM » |
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Did your hint about moving the conga line above the tumba mean that is proper music form to always have higher tones above lower?
Well ... if were are talking about "standard" music notation, then yes. Obviously it's up to each individual to notate in such a way that it works best for them; it is a personal thing. However, if you want people to read your notations easily, it is much easier if you notate in the way I explained earlier. From a conductor's point of view, it is MUCH easier if you follow basic orchestral score guidelines ... high to low, top to bottom respectively. As a performer, I certainly do much better when the notation follows these guidelines ... but I'm right at home reading standard notation; other individuals may not be. I will also say that the majority of Drum Tab takes the same stance ... with lower pitched sounds appearing at the bottom. It helps having to always look back to see which line represents which instrument. Notation that takes timbre into account certainly has everything to gain and nothing to lose ... in my opinion.
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« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2004, 07:58 PM » |
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Good stuff here people. I'll have to learn both ways I guess.  So Bart are the 8th sufficient to notate this or as windhorse says the slap is on "a" of 1 as in" 1 e & a 2 e & a ... x x S
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2004, 09:25 PM » |
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So Bart are the 8th sufficient to notate this or as windhorse says the slap is on "a" of 1 as in" 1 e & a 2 e & a ... x x S
No ... he said it was on the 'e' the bass tone or heel of the hand was on 'a' Traditionally the 'a' is sounded by the bomba (low) drum. The bomba drum is shorter and wider ... traditionally made from rum, nail or lard barrels ... what many of would recognize as wine barrels.
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
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Fed
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« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2004, 08:46 AM » |
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I guess I am missing something. it realy doesn't matter much since I'm playing by myself.  But he did say that first slap is centered between first two clave hits so that would put it on "a" ... no? I don't mean to argue. It realy is fine point I guess and I don't kow enough about rumba and traditions to even talk about it. Anyway it's good to have a discussion about his.
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windhorse
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« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2004, 08:56 AM » |
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I guess I am missing something. it realy doesn't matter much since I'm playing by myself.  But he did say that first slap is centered between first two clave hits so that would put it on "a" ... no? I don't mean to argue. It realy is fine point I guess and I don't kow enough about rumba and traditions to even talk about it. Anyway it's good to have a discussion about his. OK, I think I know what's messing you up. I re-wrote the notation with 1e&a2e&a3e&a4e&a That's 16 notes right? OK, the first two clave hits are the 1, and the "a". That leaves two 16ths between them -right? Now, I'm saying the normal quinto ride has the first slap dead center between the 1 and a, which means it splits those two 16th notes. Bart was saying he likes to put two slaps there, meaning that both 16ths - the "e", and the "&" are hit. Of course, I don't see him doing this at any speed with only the left hand while the right is occupied with clave (my exercise). I suppose he might do the clave with a foot pedal, and uses both hands for the drums. That way you can alternate hands and get all the licks in the two 16ths pocket.
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2004, 08:57 AM » |
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I guess I am missing something. it realy doesn't matter much since I'm playing by myself.  But he did say that first slap is centered between first two clave hits so that would put it on "a" ... no? I don't mean to argue. It realy is fine point I guess and I don't kow enough about rumba and traditions to even talk about it. Anyway it's good to have a discussion about his. You're not arguing, your just needing clarification. No, it's not centered between the first two clave hits because there is no center, unless you play a higher note value than what we are already talking about, but let's not go there and confuse the matter. The rumba (or rhumba) clave we are notating is 3/2 clave ... meaning there are three hits in the first bar. If we stick to the clave pattern being a two-bar pattern, the first two hits would fall on beat 1 and the & of 2 (or after 2). Forget what anyone else said ... just look at my notation ... it's correct. With the clave on 1 - - & ... there are only two eighth notes in between the two clave hits .... so you see, you can't "center" a slap in between because there's not an odd number of rests. The slap has to be on the & of 1, or on beat 2. Windhorse notated the first slap on the & of 1 .... the eighth-note immediately following the first clave. Actually, he notated his using sixteenth-notes ... meaning 1 e & u ... the first slap would be on the sixteenth-note immediately following the first clave ... putting it on e. When you say "a" ... do you mean the AND (&) or the UH (u) of the beat? Perhaps we have some confusion with syllable use ... which can be kind of confusing if we aren't on the same page of understanding or use. I'll see if I can make a lesson out of this ... notate it and record it for the 5-Minute Lessons.
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My doctor says it's bad for my blood pressure if my mind is blown for more than five minutes at a time.
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