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sidereal
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« on: May 28, 2002, 05:10 PM » |
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This may be a bit of unneccesary whining, but it seems to me that the "flaky bass player" syndrome is more than just an idle stereotype. I'm finding that bassists are more often unmotivated, lazy and uncommital. Right now I'm in difficult situations with two different bassists from two separate bands. (the rest of the bandmembers are noticing it too, so it's not just me.) Is it too much to ask that a bass player... 1. give a valid reason why he can't seem to make it to practice, other than "I've got plans"? 2. show up on time? 3. know the names of the songs rather than ask "how does that one go again?" 4. participate in the business aspect (which the rest of us do) and not just expect others to do it all? Sorry, I guess this is random whining. The problem is that I'm dealing with immensely talented performers, but who either are uninterested or argumentative when you try to get them motivated. I guess I'm wondering if there really is a personality type for bassists, and (more importantly) how I can get one motivated in a way that doesn't lead to a fight? They're a very sesitive species, these bassists.  |
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Peter Jeffery
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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2002, 09:14 PM » |
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I can't disagree with the stereotype about bass players...we all (musicians) have our unique idiosyncrasies if you want to generalize.
First thing I learned is find a bass player who loves what he does --not a wanna-be guitar player....and not a guitar player who couldn't cut it so switched to bass and now plays 'rhythm guitar' bass parts. That SUCKS!
Someone here once nailed it in a nice, simple way -a bass player is a drummers best friend. At least they should be.
In reference to your problem, I tend to lean towards the adage that a band is only as strong as it's weakest link.
If he's not pulling his weight -have things changed one way or another. If you don't possess the authority within your band to have him replaced, then I'd suggest deciding whether or not the situation is still a beneficial one for you as things currently stand. If not -move on and find a more comfortable fit elsewhere.
Those people who get ahead in life are those who absolutely refuse to let others set up roadblocks along their paths to success.
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Peter Jeffery
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BAnimalG
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« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2002, 10:09 AM » |
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A majority of the bassists that I have played with have these same problems. Why? Hell if I know! That's just the nature of the beast I guess. |
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2002, 09:32 PM » |
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I run into the same problem ....... although the great bassists always end up being one of my closest friends. This has been true ever since my high school days.
Whoa ... speaking of High School, I've got a 20 year reunion this August.
Sometimes I think it's type casting. The bassist feels that their self-worth is based on the number of notes they play. If they play eggs all night (that's a hip way of saying "whole notes"), then they start thinking like simpletons or get bad attitudes.
I'm sure we could pick any instrument and find that a majority of it's players act in a particular, stereo-typical way ... don't you think?
All of this reminds me of a few, very funny, bass jokes. Don't know if I can post them in the Misc section ... they are not X-rated ... but definitely not General Audience in the way of subject matter.
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Peter Jeffery
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« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2002, 12:27 AM » |
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Drummers: Generally decent people with a reputation for being the crazy ones. In reality, drummers are probably the most down to earth individuals in the band. Willing to openly share their ideas with other drummers. Are kind to animals.
Guitarists: The 'real' musicians -or so they would have you think. Not to be trusted with your money; woman; feeding your pets while you're on vacation, etc. Will not share their ideas with other guitarists. Will quit a band cold and call it 'musical differences' when in fact it's because the drummer is hooking up with more ladies than they do. Unfortunately this is rarely a reality -guitarists are mirror-loving, heartless, remorseless whores.
Keyboard Players: Skinny tie lovers. Not sure about much to do with them, but I've always kinda liked them just the same. Never get to really know them though. They seem pleasant enough on the outside but harbor terrible personal secrets.
Singers: Not the sharpest crayon's in the pack. They have a tough job smiling and singing every night....it helps to be a little on the slow side -except when ducking bottles and insults. They have only one comeback, "Hey buddy, I don't come to MacDonalds to bug you when you're at work." After this one, it's no more than a battle of the wits with an unarmed man.....feel free to insult at will. I always end up friends with the singer. I don't know why. Probably because I like the trail of hot but broken hearted women they leave in their path.
Bass Players: Schizophrenics; Manic Depressives; Borderline Personality Disorders. A necessary evil on this Earth. If you can find a great one -keep them shackled and chained in your basement before they get a better offer from another band. Feed as directed.
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Peter Jeffery
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felix
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first class all the way :-)
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« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2002, 07:01 AM » |
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"Hey buddy, I don't come to MacDonalds to bug you when you're at work."
-I know I'm going to use that one.
I have a GREAT BASS player that has been with us for 6 years; Adam Nation- The Bass Sensation
He's cool has relatively few idiosyncrasies (he belongs in 2 animal clubs and the AmVets, plus he usually breaks something during volleyball season) but is extremely talented and 9 times out of 10 knows how the line is to be developed.
For example...he wrote a line a while back and I played something very busy to it (typical drummer response)...he didn't like it and told me (suggested) how to play it. It sounded better his way...we are all happy. I have found there are two sides to everything....all musicians I have met are usually different. BTW...My guitar player is one of the most moral, humble, quiet, standup and well balanced human beings I have ever met. Both those guys are rare I guess. The problem I see with drummers are too many times they are controlling or stubborn. YOU CAN'T CHANGE PEOPLE...so I don't try.
I can't complain. I just shitcanned the people I couldn't deal with and kept moving on.
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Sonor, The Drummers Drum
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rlhubley
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« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2002, 08:01 AM » |
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You know how you end up in a band where the music sounds good, but really is not that interesting? Everything is standard 4/4, standard form, all about 110-125 bpm, all straight with no swing, all 2 and 4 back beats, all the same lame song endings, all of the same intros, most of the tunes are mysteriosly in the key of E, everything is just 99-100% PREDICTABLE. You know these situations? I'm sure most of you do. If so, then you know how after 10 min -3 rehearsals(depending on your patience, etc) this gets quite boring. Sure, the gigs are fun, and might make some dough, but the rehearsals are boring. You don't feel like you personally need to be there so the vocalist can learn the chorus section of that one tune she continually screws up, or so the guitarist can figure out how to start a song that is C instead of E. At this point, you start to not want to rehearse much, or at all. You are only interested in doing the gigs. Let's face it, there really are some situations that don't warrant much rehearsal.
I think the bassist fall in to these EXACT problems just as often, if not more often than us drummers.
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RLRR
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« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2002, 11:12 AM » |
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I know what you mean rlhubley ! Another indication of this is if the bassplayer starts playing 'cool licks' every other measure  |
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marker
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« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2002, 04:11 PM » |
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I can think of a couple of exceptions, but usually I find bass players to be real nice folks. Some of my best friends are bass players I've worked with or are working with. Maybe it's the "support" role of the instrument that attracts that kind of personality, so you get friendly, cooperative people instead of assholes.
As for how they stand the simple pattern playing they are often called on to do, I think they simply get into grooving, just like we do when we're called upon to play like that. Just like with drums, there's a lot more to that "simple" stuff than you might think. Quality bass playing takes a lot of talent and work, just like any other instrument.
You can tell the really good ones. All of a sudden, getting into the pocket is a piece of cake.
Now, if you want talk egomaniacal lead guitarists or singers, that's a whole 'nother matter.........
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Misenko
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« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2002, 11:28 AM » |
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God, how true is this? Our Bassist sounds quite a bit like your bassists..except he loves what he does, he is a bass player through and through, and for all his other worried troubles etc, he is a nice guy.
Our guitarist is anything but an egomaniac either...in fact he gets annoyed when guitarist are like that.
Misenko.
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2002, 11:21 AM » |
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And you thought Java Man was extinct. LOL ....... It's hard to find a good bass player. The really good ones won't stay on bass and will move to guitar out of boredom ... or they will just overplay all the time. Actually drummers can be the same way. True musical maturity is when you've got the chops, but also have the knowledge of when and when not to use them (chops that is). So, often times, the guys with no drive to be a great musician, lack the desire to practice, or have a key segment of their DNA strand ... wind up playing bass. |
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Life is a beauty contest; whatever wins your heart ... wins your life.
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knucklzz
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« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2002, 12:08 PM » |
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Great Bass players are out there... Met a whole gaggle of 'em in San Antonio Texas believe it or not. Playing at an open jam session at a place called Make My Day.
Monster players, no ego, lots 'o fun. Totally professional and into playing BASS. Not frustrated:
Drummers
Guitar Players
Keyboard Players
Singers
Songwriters Etc.
They hang out at VintageBass.com
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2002, 12:36 PM » |
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Great Bass players are out there... Met a whole gaggle of 'em in San Antonio Texas believe it or not. Playing at an open jam session at a place called Make My Day.
Monster players, no ego, lots 'o fun. Totally professional and into playing BASS. Not frustrated:
Drummers
Guitar Players
Keyboard Players
Singers
Songwriters Etc.
They hang out at VintageBass.com Perhaps we should bring some of them over here to start defending themselves! There are the drummer stereotypes as well ... which we are all too familiar with. |
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Life is a beauty contest; whatever wins your heart ... wins your life.
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563
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drum + hand
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« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2002, 06:47 PM » |
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[Perhaps we should bring some of them over here to start defending themselves! There are the drummer stereotypes as well ... which we are all too familiar with. all right im here now, yall need to clam up! ... ive been a bass player longer than a drummer (16 years bass, drums about 8 years) and I have to say ... drummers are all bunch of drunks who cant keep time >:p its funny. I love the stereotype thing. in every band ive ever been in as a bass player (and on other instruments), ive been the one that makes calls, the one that does the artwork, the one that is ALWAYS FREAKIN EARLY, not just on time mind you ... early. bands are relationships much like marriages. sometimes it takes a while to find the right partner, and it sucks looking. but there out there. |
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Making bad art. Saying stupid things. Implimenting my master plan to be forgotten when I'm gone and forgettable while I'm here. The Luna MothmeTableland |
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Autist
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« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2002, 01:16 PM » |
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563, you're totally right about the marriage thing. Only I was one of the luckey few. Once I met a guy in the local bar, and somehow we started to talk, and he said hey, I play bass and I said Hey I play the drums. SO we deceided to play sometime and then we found out that oure houses where just 100 metre out of each other, and the guy is over motivated and surely not a gitarist who couldn't play the guitar, he always talks about the "fact" that bass player are superior to guitar players. And he thinks that his best friend should be the drummer, so there I was  |
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TMe
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« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2002, 09:06 AM » |
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I've only encountered two types of bass players; bassists who fit the stereotype, and bassists who were the leader/songwriter of their band.
I suspect it takes a really strong understanding of musical theory to be a good bass player. If a bassist has it, he leads the band. If a bassist doesn't, then it's "Guitar for Dummies" time.
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"Some people say I ain't so super groovy. Why don't I leave the music alone?" Black Uhuru
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James Walker
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« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2002, 10:00 AM » |
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Jeez...either I've' been incredibly blessed in terms of the bass players I've worked with, or you guys are hanging out with all the wrong bass players...but most of the bassists I work with are rock-solid musicians, with strong but humble personalities (kinda fits the role they play in the band, no?)...and two bass players I know in particular (Craig Brandt in Chicago - Bart, he's the bassist on my CD, FWIW), and Dave Anderson out here in Connecticut, are two of the most complete musicians I've ever met - "complete" to the point that I would often call them up to run musical or creative ideas past them, even if it wasn't a bass-related issue, just to get their perspective.
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"Less is more." "Play for the song." "Smaller setups make you more creative." Come on, folks - get past the bumper sticker slogans and THINK. Take some responsibility for your creative choices.
Stop hiding behind tiresome platitudes.
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Drumlooney
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« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2002, 01:47 PM » |
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Hey James I'm in your boat, I've been fortunate to play with some great bass players without ego's. As a matter of fact one of them is an Eastman grad and the most humble guy I know, another is a berkley guy who knows more about music theory then anyone I know. I guess I'm luck!!  |
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You don't practice one day no one notices, you don't practice two days you notice, you don't practice three days everyone notices.
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James Walker
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« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2002, 02:49 PM » |
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As a matter of fact one of them is an Eastman grad and the most humble guy I know,
Eastman...humble...DOES NOT COMPUTE!!!! It's not Tony Levin, is it?  ? |
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"Less is more." "Play for the song." "Smaller setups make you more creative." Come on, folks - get past the bumper sticker slogans and THINK. Take some responsibility for your creative choices.
Stop hiding behind tiresome platitudes.
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Drumlooney
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« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2002, 02:55 PM » |
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Hey james I know it's an oxymouron, lol.
and no it's not Tony his name is Chris.
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You don't practice one day no one notices, you don't practice two days you notice, you don't practice three days everyone notices.
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toddnuss
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« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2002, 10:27 PM » |
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It's true- the bass player stereo type is getting larger by the day. But maybe this is because they are getting harder to find. When you've had your band for long enough you realize these things are relevent to any PERSON no matter what instrument they play. There's always one person along the way that seems to drag the rest of you down.
* A good way to avoid this (even though it sounds kindof drastic) is to do sortof a background check of the person after you do an audition- before you hire the possible band mate. Ask around, teachers, friends, neighbors, this will save you time that you don't have in the first place. One time I went to the guys work to ask people how he was to work with. we laugh about it now but I would do it again if I had to.
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Scheming Demon
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« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2002, 03:35 PM » |
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I guess I've been lucky too. All the bass players I've been involved with have been fine.
Now if you said the singer instead, I would agree with you 100%.
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AdemT
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« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2002, 06:49 AM » |
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I can relate to this We (my band) recently asked our bass player to leave because of his lack of motivation. Everytime we organised rehearsal he would always be busy with something else, and then at rehearsal he would get very rude. I have notice this with a few bass player I have played with, maybe they think they can do less because they have 2 less strings than a guitar..LOL  |
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Thunderbolt1000T
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« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2002, 11:09 PM » |
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Drummers: Generally decent people with a reputation for being the crazy ones. In reality, drummers are probably the most down to earth individuals in the band. Willing to openly share their ideas with other drummers. Are kind to animals.
Yepper!, thats me.
Guitarists: The 'real' musicians -or so they would have you think. Not to be trusted with your money; woman; feeding your pets while you're on vacation, etc. Will not share their ideas with other guitarists. Will quit a band cold and call it 'musical differences' when in fact it's because the drummer is hooking up with more ladies than they do. Unfortunately this is rarely a reality -guitarists are mirror-loving, heartless, remorseless whores.
Nailed that one!
Keyboard Players: Skinny tie lovers. Not sure about much to do with them, but I've always kinda liked them just the same. Never get to really know them though. They seem pleasant enough on the outside but harbor terrible personal secrets.
Right again.
Singers: Not the sharpest crayon's in the pack. They have a tough job smiling and singing every night....it helps to be a little on the slow side -except when ducking bottles and insults. They have only one comeback, "Hey buddy, I don't come to MacDonalds to bug you when you're at work." After this one, it's no more than a battle of the wits with an unarmed man.....feel free to insult at will. I always end up friends with the singer. I don't know why. Probably because I like the trail of hot but broken hearted women they leave in their path.
Hehehehehehehe! Nailed another one.
Bass Players: Schizophrenics; Manic Depressives; Borderline Personality Disorders. A necessary evil on this Earth. If you can find a great one -keep them shackled and chained in your basement before they get a better offer from another band. Feed as directed.
I have the most wonderful bass player who luckily, likes the basement. <grin> and is very well fed. Seriously though, I think it is a myth. Mike, my Bass player, is great to work with, and IMHO, his playing IS all that, a bag of chips, and a Dr. Pepper(r) on the side. When your lucky enough to find a Bassist that is gold, treat him as such, and tell him at every opportunity, how much your enjoy working with him, and mean it.
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mudlark
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« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2002, 01:00 PM » |
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I just had to throw in that my last bass player had to stop rehearsing at my house and have rehearsal at the keyboard player's house SO HE WOULDN'T HAVE TO WALK SO FAR TO GET TO THE REFRIGERATOR AND HIS COLD BEER. No S**t. We broke up soon after.
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Critter29
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« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2002, 02:51 PM » |
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For me, it's been the exact opposite with bass players. In most cases, they were always good, reliable, friendly and had good equipment. My very best friend - who happens to be a bass player - that I played in two different bands with was the kind of guy that always showed up early, was prepared and wasn't afraid to work his butt off! He was always there for the band.
For me, my problems have always been with singers. Some were very talented and capable but, lacked discipline among other things. Some were the types that would develop a tick we all know as "lead singer disease." Perhaps you've all heard of it? It's basically where one person decides that their having fun at the expense of everyone else is the most important thing in the world. I can't tell you how many times I've witnessed this happening and it's the very reason why I no longer believe in the band concept. Nine times out of ten, it's always the singer that ruins it for everyone else. At least in my experience anyway.
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drwalker
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« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2002, 10:41 AM » |
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563:its funny. I love the stereotype thing. in every band ive ever been in as a bass player (and on other instruments), ive been the one that makes calls, the one that does the artwork, the one that is ALWAYS FREAKIN EARLY, not just on time mind you ... early. I guess it is my time. I have been reading this and having a good laugh. Spending 20+ years as a bass player and now playing drums, I have lived on both sides of the tacks and here is what I have learned. The drummer and bass player are as one. The groove comes from the feeling that they project to each other. It was weird but I could always tell when something was bothering the drummers that I played with because they seemed play without feeling or very mechanical. Same thing when I was having issues in my life my drummers could tell and always tell me to relax between songs, sets etc. You can have average guitar players and singers and if your bass player and drummer are on, the band sounds kick ass. As you know if you cannot groove with your bass player the band sounds wrong. That is how I remember it. "563" nailed it! I was always the first to arrive for practice (along with the drummer) and we spent several minutes getting into a groove that we knew would carry into the practice. It seemed the drummer and I always were the ones to better ourselves driving the band to play new material. I can remember when I wanted to play some YES and Moody blues and the drummer was chomping at the bit to finally be able to show his chops with some very melodic bass licks. We would practice by ourselves to work everything out and then get the rest of the band involved. It just clicked so much better when we grooved! We were on! It was not about reading music, or chicks (even though that was a nice bonus) or who looked the coolest it was about the internal rhythm/groove that we could create together. Moreover, how we could take that bond that we developed and carry it to the rest of the band and the crowd. It is funny because my current drum instructor is always saying to find a guitar player to jam with and I keep insisting that I would rather find a bass player. Knowing that if I could synchronize with a bass player the guitar players will be there when we are ready. IMHO. dw |
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