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manoktrain
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« on: June 07, 2002, 02:16 PM » |
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Hello, thanks again for everyone's help. I ended up buying a Pearl Export and I agree with most of the feedback on the cafe, it's a great kit, from what I looked at in my price range I think it was the best value for a lower end kit.
Here's a snare drum question though. On the standard export snare drum, I can't seem to get much snare out of it. I've tried cranking the snare adjustment all the way, and played around with loosening it as well, but I still get more of an tom sound coming out of it with very little action from the snare.
Wondering if anyone had any advice, perhaps a tip about how the snare is supposed to lay on the bottom head?
I am looking at getting a new snare anyway, just to go with a higher quality snare drum, but I was just shouting out on the cafe to see what anyone thought on getting a better sound out of the Pearl to use it as a back up..
Thanks again.
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manoktrain
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« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2002, 02:20 PM » |
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In scouring the cafe, I noticed that the bottom head of the snare should be tighter than the top.
I'm not quite sure if it is. Unfortunatley I'll have to get out of my 9-5 prison before I can check.
Might the tension of the bottom head effect the action of the snare?
Hmmmmm...
Thanks cafe.
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2002, 11:15 PM » |
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Might the tension of the bottom head effect the action of the snare? It most DEFINITELY will affect the action of the snare wires. Everything from the tuning relationship between the batter and snare head, the overall tension of the snare head, the tension of the snare wires, and the snare to head attitude (meaning how the wires come in contact with the head) all affect the sound you will get ... or in your case .... not get. I encourage you to experiment, but start with one thing and see what happens. By this I mean that you don't want to adjust the snares, retune the bottom and top head, etc. Pick one of those and see what happens. As you work with it you'll notice what the variations do. If you don't get the result, then start with another part ... see what happens there, then go back to your original point and see what happens if you alter the two. Make sense? LOL I'll be more specific if I need to ... but I think you get the point. It's like fixing something on your car. You don't get out the manual, read all the possible causes of the symptoms you are experiencing ... then immediately start administering all of the fixes. Nooooo ... you choose one, you try it, and if it doesn't work, you try something else ... be sure to return the first that you replaced or fixed because there may have not been anything wrong with it to begin with. LOL ... I said I wasn't going to go into it ... but I did.  |
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manoktrain
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« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2002, 09:30 AM » |
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Make perfect sense Bartman, just take a systematic approach to find out which variable is making the snare sound weak.
Thanks for the advice, now that I know what variable there are, I'll spend some time tinkering with it today.
Thanks again, I'd be spending alot of time chasing down these answers if it were not for the cafe.
Thanks.
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rlhubley
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« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2002, 07:46 AM » |
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Funny that you mention tuning the bottom head higher than the batter head. Honestly, this is almost NEVER the case with me. For me it is usually a bit lower than the batter. I find that most people with the "snareless-Snare syndrome" are usually sufferring the effects of overtightened snares, uneven tension snare wires, an upside snare unit, or any combination.
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2002, 07:54 AM » |
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Funny that you mention tuning the bottom head higher than the batter head. Honestly, this is almost NEVER the case with me. For me it is usually a bit lower than the batter. I find that most people with the "snareless-Snare syndrome" are usually sufferring the effects of overtightened snares, uneven tension snare wires, an upside snare unit, or any combination.
Hey, if it works ... do it! If you can tune toms with the bottom head looser, why not snares? I've done it before ... it works ... but it's not my sound. Every snare is different, etc. Find what works for you and go from there. As long as it sounds good ... I could care-or-less what method you use. Anymore, I just use my ears to get the sound; forget making sure every point on the head is perfectly in tune. A word of caution: the higher pitched the drum, the more exposed those out tunings will be revealed. Works great for toms, but snares are less forgiving. |
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rlhubley
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« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2002, 07:59 AM » |
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I know what you mean, but the bottom head is usally not too much lower than the batter. I guess it really depends on the situation, but i find that keeping the 2 heads just slightly different in pitch, allows much of beatiful naturaul overtones to remain, without letting them get too out of control. I don't mean like a 3rd apart or anything, more like a 2nd i guess.
This really has me thinking! As soon as I get to my drum, I'm checking out the pitch relationship!
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2002, 08:30 AM » |
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Here's a recent response I wrote regarding snare tuning ... more specifically about the whole Perfect 5th thing. http://community.drummercafe.com/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=651;start=0A Major 2 nd interval (relationship between top/bottom) really works well on the snare. So do Perfect 4 th and Perfect 5 th intervals. The Minor 3 rd doesn't suit my needs very often; it chokes the sound ... which can be a good thing for toms if you have too much resonance. A Major 3 rd sounds to tonal to my ears. It might work in a studio situation for a particular song in a particular key ... which you would tune to. All of this is subjective and is NOT necessarily the LAW or RULE ... but certainly tends to be the norm. For all your newcomers to the art of drumming, this interval stuff has to do with the harmonic series. Every pitch/note actually has other notes in it ... called upper partials or harmonics. Just thinking, but maybe it would be a good thing to discuss this stuff in another thread. Perhaps I'll do a 5-Minute Lesson on this very topic; the physics of music is one of my strengths. |
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manoktrain
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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2002, 09:17 AM » |
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Thanks guys, I'm still messing around with the snare, so far, not much luck.
RlHubly, I was wondering what you meant by an "upside snare unit"
I'm really wet behind the ears with snare drums even more so than I am with the rest of the kit.
So far I've systematically played with tuning the top and bottom heads and it didn't seem to have much of an effect on the snare sound, so I'm going to try to play with the snare wires themselves now.
Any tips on how to set them up so that they do have even tension?
Thanks again, I'd be in a world of hurt with out this forum.
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rlhubley
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« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2002, 10:22 AM » |
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When i said upside snare unit, i was referring the snare wires being upside down, and therefore preventing even contact with the bottom head.
Tips for checking the snare
1. DON'T CHOKE!! -- Many drummers seem to think a tighter snare will mean more snare, this is not true. If the snare is tesnioned too tight, it will choke.
2. Make sure that the tension is even. This is referring to the tape or string that the strainer and butt plate hold. If the strainer tension is real tight and the tesnion on the butt plate side is sort of loose, you have created uneven tension. You are now pulling hard on one end. This is like trying to raise the pitch of a drum by cranking on one single lug, it will raise the pitch, but you'll toss any chance of a decent sound right out the window!
3. If you don't have any strange wires on your snare, and the above 2 tips don't seem to work, try removing the snare and putting back, starting at square one. When you put the snare back on, make sure to have the strainer turned off, and the set the strainer tension loose. Put the tape or string in at a mediium-light tension, then adjust the strainer as needed.
Hope this helps.
BTW, what kind of head is on the top, and the bottom???
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manoktrain
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« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2002, 10:34 AM » |
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Thank Rl,
That most definatley helps out.
The top head is an Evans white batter and the bottom is just a clear Evans head.
It could very well be that the snare is upside down, thanks for clearing that up. And I'm almost positive that the tension is uneven and I definatley was of the mind set that a tighter snare wire meant more of the snare sound.
Thanks for the tips, pretty sure I've narrowed the problem down to some mishaps with setting the wires and not the heads themselves.
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felix
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first class all the way :-)
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« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2002, 11:49 AM » |
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I was taught that one should crank the bottom head fairly tight (not really sweat the lug to lug/ pitches etc.) and then loosen the 4 lugs adjacent to the snare bed a turn or so...I always treated that side of the drum as the snare side only...so I think snare, bottom head/ tone and feel- top head. If the bottom head is too loose or too tight, I notice it- but really it doesn't seem to be a big factor when I use this "bed" tuning technique.
I've always realized a relatively fat snare sound with this tuning technique, pretty good (not great) sensitivity and reduced buzz....I suppose there are trade offs.
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Sonor, The Drummers Drum
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