DRUMMER CAFE

How fast do you need to play?  How sustained?

200bpm for fills?  200bpm for 4 bars at a time?
260bpm blasts?  Need more info...

How much time do you have before the audition?

I have 2 weeks and I need to play about 192 for sustained  periods, and I am lucky to pull off 138 right now  

Relax.  That is the only way to blaze.  If you tighten up, you aren't relaxed enough.

And that's a big deficit.

Do the audition, practice up for it the best you can and have fun- jam.

Auditions    I hate those things.

Yowsers!  Double bass at around 180 or less is a totally different technique than double bass at 200-260+.  With proper instruction you may get a feel for it praciticing like mad for 2 weeks, but it is very unlikely you will be able to incorporate a new technique like that into your overall playing during the same period.  But, that really does depend on the person and their natual ability/gear/practice ethics etc.

I don't want to sound like you should give up hope on this audition, but you should be prepared to handle it with the possibility that you won't be doing double bass at 200bpm.  If you have enough of what they are looking for (personality fit, band vision, attitude, other playing skills) then you may be able to impress them enough without the double bass skills.  Those things can be learned easily enough with practice, a good attitude cannot.

Be confident about what you can do and impress them with what you have, but also show them that you are dedicated to your drums and will only continue to improve.

However it works out, just as everyone else is saying, try to learn as much as you can from the experience.  If you don't get in the band this time around, maybe you will next time.  Just keep working on what you think you want to be doing as a drummer.  Get into any band, play and practice and learn as much as possible.  If you do that, bands will come looking for you when you are good enough, not the other way around.

If you want more details on the fast double bass technique, post here or send me a message/email.  I'd be glad to help you figure it out

Definitely take a full day off at least once a week, if not twice.  Same approach to weightlifting depending on how much you stress your muscles.

When you're not woking your feet, you can work your hands.  But, it's always nice to have a full day away from it mentally.

We can keep posting here or send me an email if you like.  First, what typeof pedals do you have, and how do you have them setup?  Please be as descriptive as you can  And can you describe your technique and practice methods in detail?

Being 30 sucks don't it  I can't play well without warming up anymore...

Don't play harder, play smarter... see if you can substitute some quads as opposed to making your legs do all the work.  

There is more than one way to skin a cat.  Hey, did I say that?

Everything you've posted so far leads me to believe you just haven't been working on it long enough.

Pedal setup doesn't matter much until you get into 180bpm+  Same with throne height, warmups etc...

I spent over 6 months adjusting and trying stuff out with my IC Power Glides.  In the end, I had them setup pretty much the same as any other non-adustable pedal  The difference was that my technique was better, my muslces more conditioned and my stamina improved.

I'm curious, how often do you practice heel down?  You should have the same stamina heel down as you do heel up.  You may not be able to go as fast with one over the other for top speed, but for the slow and mid tempo beats, you should be comfortable switching between the two.  If you can't, you need more work on the muscles.

Practicing heel down gives you probably twice the shin workout than practicing heel up.  I'm not saying you should play heel down, but you should practice heel down.

How long have you been at it?  Trying to get comfortable with the double bass?  Can you do it both heel down and heel up?

Just trying to make sure I'm not assuming anything

As far as the Cobras go, try this out:
- Beaters at 45 degrees back in resting position
- about 1 inch of beater shaft sticking out the bottom (basically have them at what looks like a normal height, not to short, and not too long)
- meduim to loose spring tension.

It may sound weird but usually the less spring tension you have, the faster you can go.  Also, the lower the spring tension, the easier it is to practice heel down.

Throne height is important as well.  Higher is generally better where your thighs are just slightly pointing down.  You may also want to experiment with how far or close your throne is, just for double bass practicing.

And the likely reason you are kicking butt some days, but sucking wind on others is becuase your muscles aren't sure what to do yet.  Hence the need to practice diligently for a solid 6 months.

I'll try to put together some more detailed descriptions regarding certain techniques (or find some links for them).

One thing you likely can't look forward to with your current pedals is taking advantage of the heel-toe technique.  It's not a necessary technique, but can come in handy.  But, the Iron Cobra footbards are too short, unless your feet are really small

So here's an initial practice suggestion:
- minimum 3 hours
- Heel down at whatever tempo you can sustatain.  Play it as long as you can, all 3 hours if possible.  If you start to get tired, lower the tempo, if it is too easy, increase the tempo.  Any time you stop or fumble a double bass roll, change to lead with the other foot.  So if you start with R L R L ... and screw up and have to start again, then start L R L R L R.  Even though the pattern is exactly the same, you will be amazed at how difficult it is for your brain to handle simply starting the patter with the other foot, and you trying to consciously keep it even.  It's just more muscle control.
- Take the next day off
- Try it again the day after.  Note any difference or change in your ability.

Also, no matter where you are or what you are doing, practice heel down.  Standing around in a lineup (no, not at the jailhouse), tap your foot until your shin gets tired.  The tap the other foot.  Driving in your car?  Tap with the foot that isn't on the gas.  Basically start using your feet as much as possible.  They are more useful than just walking tools

Also footwear, what do you play with?  Army boots?  Shoes?  Nothing?  Ultimately it won't matter, but at least be consistent with what you have on your feet.  Some of the extreme double bass guys wear huge army boots, some of them play in socks.  It all depends on how you train yourself...

Yup, everything set around medium, making them very close to any other non-adjustable pedal.  If anything, loosen the spring tension almost to the bottom.

The idea is that once your technique is strong, you can take advantage of the adjustment in the pedals for fine tuning.

Sounds like you need to focus on more heel down.  You will pretty much never get the speeds you want with just using your legs.  You will find practicing heel down will make your leg technique MUCH better.  When playing heel up, you don't pay much attention to your shins, but you will be suprised to find out how much it helps having strong shins even for heel up playing.

It takes a few days to get passed the initial fast burn in the shins.  Practice really slow to start, you basically want to go as long as possible, not as fast as possible to start.  The point is to gain as much muscle control as you can first, then you build up speed.

Try that out for a few days and lemme now what happens

One other thing, do you smoke?  If so, how much?  Doing any type of extreme drumming requires good physical health (same for all drumming really).  Your muscles need to be able to trasport oxygen fast and efficiently.  You can improve this by working out (or lots of drum practicing) as well as by improving your general health (not smoking or drinking excessively, better diet etc...).  Once you have great technique, you can go back to smoking and drinking all you want

Well, played again today, got it around 135 for a while, sometimes it was comfy, other times, really awkward.
I swear, I hate my Iron Cobras....

And then you just start getting slower  

What's up with that.

Felix's new motto:

"Slow but good"  

I'm a master at double bass "not to be arrogant" here is what you need to do. Throw away those welfare Iron Cobras. They really do suck. Pick up some Pearl Eliminators. Use your whole leg not just your feet. I would guess, do sit ups since you need strong gut muscles not leg muscles. Once you get the pearl eliminators, use the white cams even though they are the slowest you will get a "bicycle" pedal type feel. Set the springs up tight and put the beaters about 8 inches from the bass drum head. Then get one of these  Danmar Double Metal Kick Pads, this will also increase your speed! Found here http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=031226082316066119034039239923/g=perc/search/detail/base_pid/445580/

Yeah getting that "bicycle pedal type feel" is the main thing. Your legs will never get tired if you set it up like this, and it will feel just like pedaling a bike around. It will also be easy to play triplets or 16th notes at sickeningly blinding speeds with complete control!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also at slow speeds!!!!!!!!!!! YOU WILL NEVER GET TIRED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This really is the secret to fast, controlled, double bass playing.

I have been using Iron Cobras for years and love them.  But then again I have only been playing for a little over 40 years so what would I know.  There is no best pedal (or anything else) for all people.  Each person will find pros and cons for each piece of equipment he uses.  Music is a compromise at best and if the Pearl works best for you that’s great.  To blatantly dismiss a top of the line piece of equipment as junk shows immaturity and little understanding of others personal preferences.  I know many drummers who still use the Speed King and love it.  Lighten up a little and enjoy the good times and the diverse experiences the Drummer Cafe has to offer.  

Oh, and I forgot something.... get in shape fast? HA! No such thing. You may be able to lose weight quickly with special diets, but at a price. Everything has a price.

The healthiest way is eating properly and getting regular exercise. You should try it. I lost 80 pounds, but it took years. I paid the price of time and patience and feel fine.

*** and you thought I couldn't put up a short post ***

Well I do have a reason why I don't like Iron Cobras they either smack your shins or there to close to the drum head there is no way to set em up well. I used to like em before I tried and bought the Eliminator pedals. I do think the Iron Cobras are "ok". I  Just like the Eliminators they work for me. Iron Cobras are sluggish and no it's not me when I lift my foot up it takes so much time for the pedal to come back up to my foot, Those pedals could only do like 16th notes at 140 BPM.  Even the eliminators can't really even keep up with my feet but there still faster than Iron cobra's. I guess it's just personal opinion. There could always be a better pedal. Yeah the Iron Cobras are quality just like the eliminators there can always be improvments. I'm sure deathmetal drummers probably get no respect around here "single strokin it up all the time" but if your doing death metal 16th notes at 140 is unexceptable. You'll be laughed off the stage if Cryptopsy went on just before ya. I don't use triggers!

Did you read the instructions?  The Iron Cobras are adjustable over a very wide range.  One of the biggest problems (in my opinion) with all high-end pedals is that there are too many adjustments.  This over abundance of adjustments can make it more difficult for the less experienced owners.