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Author Topic: Guaguanco  (Read 2000 times)
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windhorse
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« on: January 04, 2004, 02:09 PM »

count: | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & ||
clave: | X - - X - - - X | - - X - X - - - ||
hand:  | - R L R - L R L | R - L R - L R L ||
quint: | - S S B - S - S | - - S - - S - S ||
conga: | - - - - - - - - | O - - O - - - - ||
tumba: | - - - - - - O - | - - - - - - O - ||


As promised, mainly to Fed, but in case any of the rest of you are interested in the Guaguanco rhythm, here's my first attempt at recording what I can do. First, I recorded a bomba/click track (90bpm, then 140bpm) from an exercise book from Cliff Brooks. Then, I played palitos over that and recorded it. Then played that on my stereo while recording clave over that. Then played that on the stereo while playing the three drum Guaguanco and recording it.
These are the results. It was a great learning experience. I found that holding the ONE in the correct position between quinto slaps is NOT easy.
65BPM
http://www.animaldreams.net/cong/gua65.mp3
90BPM
http://www.animaldreams.net/cong/gua90.mp3
140BPM
http://www.animaldreams.net/cong/gua140.mp3
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Fed
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2004, 08:07 AM »

Thanks windhorse,
are you recording on the computer?
If so you should consider multitracking. There are very inexpencive or even free programs to do this. that way you mix it and pan it so the levels are more even.
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windhorse
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2004, 12:06 PM »

 I don't have a way to multitrack. It's a cheesy bottom of the line sound program on the computer.
If I were to do it again this way, I'd have the stereo playing louder, or the mic further from the drums so that you could hear the other instruments better.
Anyway, multitracking is definitely better for the one-guy with multiple instruments.

Also, after listening to my own drumming I recognize some gaps in technique to brushed up..
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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2004, 12:36 PM »

Here's my version of Guaguanco 3/2 that I threw down real fast; mono recording using a AKG 414 overhead.

I'm playing the clave with my foot using the Gajate bracket (felt beater):

http://www.drummercafe.com/download/guaguanco1.mp3


Here it is again, foot clave, plus now I'm playing cowbell with one hand (too loud in the mix really) and the conga/tumba parts with the other.

http://www.drummercafe.com/download/guaguanco2.mp3

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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2004, 03:55 PM »

Cowbell!  It goes with everything.
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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2004, 05:30 PM »

Hey, very nice Bart!!
You can hear everything very clearly.

You guys playing clave with your feet trip me out.  Wink Grin
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2004, 08:16 AM »

Here's my version of Guaguanco 3/2 that I threw down real fast; mono recording using a AKG 414 overhead.

I'm playing the clave with my foot using the Gajate bracket (felt beater):

................

Here it is again, foot clave, plus now I'm playing cowbell with one hand (too loud in the mix really) and the conga/tumba parts with the other.

................



Wow! And what he didn't tell you was that while he recorded this, he was riding a unicycle while juggling chainsaws, AND chewing gum!  Shocked

Seriously, that's WAY cool! I'm feeling very gringo-like at the moment.   Embarrassed
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Fed
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2004, 08:25 AM »


Here it is again, foot clave, plus now I'm playing cowbell with one hand (too loud in the mix really) and the conga/tumba parts with the other.

show off ...  Grin



no, that's realy cool (and impressive) Bart ....  Cool
when I think about trying that myself my mind goes into "blue screen" mode
Thanks for taking the time to record this. It helps to hear these things.
What's the cowbell pattern?
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Bart Elliott
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2004, 09:24 AM »

Here's what I played in that last example. You can see the the cowbell falls in around the conga/tumba parts so that it's linear in the hands. Makes it a LOT easier for when you're playing clave with the foot!

count:   | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & ||
cowbell:| X - X - x X - x | - x X - x X - x ||
conga:   | - S - S - - - - | O - - O - - - - ||
tumba:   | - - - - - - O - | - - - - - - O - ||
clave:   | X - - X - - - X | - - X - X - - - ||



The cowbell part (I played) isn't really a traditional pattern, but it works and sounds good ... and is perfectly acceptible. However, here's the notation for a more traditional bell pattern ... changes are in the second bar of the 3/2 Guaguanco:

count:   | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & ||
cowbell:| X - X - x X - x | X - x X - X - x ||
conga:   | - S - S - - - - | O - - O - - - - ||
tumba:   | - - - - - - O - | - - - - - - O - ||
clave:   | X - - X - - - X | - - X - X - - - ||


I'll record this one sometime and post it as well. Perhaps I should slap this all together and make a 5-Minute Lesson out of it. For a 4-way coordination groove, I play the cowbell, conga/tumba, clave in the left foot ... then a bomba drum part on the & of 2 in the first bar of the Guaguanco 3/2. This sounds so cool ... and you can do this on the drumkit as well ... using left foot on HiHat or Gajate, right foot on Kick, one hand on cowbell, and the other hand moving between the snare and toms for the conga/tumba parts. When I do this, I put the slaps on the snare then the conga/tumba open tones on the toms.

I have worked to be able to play the cowbell with either hand, while covering the conga/tumba with the opposite hand. It's nice to have the versatility as you never know what your set-up may have to look like ... BUT ... I can't play the clave in the left foot while playing the cowbell in the left hand (conga/tumba with right hand), but I'm working on it! Oh ... and if you try the bomba part, it's a lot easier if you sit down since all four limbs are working.  Cool
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dizz
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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2004, 02:36 PM »

Bart

Did you ever use the book "The New Breed" by G Chester?
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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2004, 02:45 PM »

Bart

Did you ever use the book "The New Breed" by G Chester?

Yes ... it's one of my favorites ... but I actually learned the importance of playing with either hand from my mentor, John Kasica (St. Louis Symphony Orchestra). I first discovered this while studying tambourine with John. Wanting to play the tambourine with the right-hand while holding it in the left made me work at performing good shake rolls with the left. So then I thought I'd better do the same with everything. I don't have the speed an coordination to play with either hand, but most of the basic stuff I can do.

All of this really comes in handy if you do a lot of pit-work, which I used to do. Just try to tell the conductor "could I have a moment to switch my set-up around, I can't lead with my left hand and can't reach over here because ____ and, and, and" .... you get the point.
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« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2004, 09:01 AM »

Yes, great stuff guys.

I've been working on 2/3 guaguanco patterns the past couple of months and last night dove into a 3/2 "g".  They  are super cool sounding patterns on a drumset too if you ask me- anyways;

My question is of a cross clave nature.  In Kim Plainfield's "Advanced Concepts" he states  in some instances a guaguanco can be played 2/3 in 3/2 to be hip.  What is up with that?
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« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2004, 09:11 AM »

My question is of a cross clave nature.  In Kim Plainfield's "Advanced Concepts" he states  in some instances a guaguanco can be played 2/3 in 3/2 to be hip.  What is up with that?

I do that ... and it sounds good ... although it's not "traditional" ... it works just fine.

The simpliest way to say to do this is just reverse the clave pattern, but keep the conga/cowbell parts as written.

Here's an example of the switch:

count:  | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & ||
cowbell:| X - X - x X - x | - x X - x X - x ||
conga:  | - S - S - - - - | O - - O - - - - ||
tumba:  | - - - - - - O - | - - - - - - O - ||
clave:  | - - X - X - - - | X - - X - - - X ||


You'll notice that now the clave and conga/tumba parts line up in the second bar. You could switch a different part if you wanted too. Like only reverse the cowbell, but keep the conga/tumba and clave the same. Traditionally, the clave marks the time ... determining whether it's 3/2 or 2/3 ... so that's why I suggest moving it rather than something else. If the cowbell is the only thing reversed, it's still going to sound like Guaguanco 3/2, but with a modified bell pattern. A subtle change rather than a full on 2/3 against the 3/2 sound.
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« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2004, 01:17 PM »

Check out my Latin/Funk Guaguanco hybrid groove for drumset, as well as for a percussion set-up; both available in the VIP Lounge complete with music notation and audio examples.
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« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2004, 09:58 AM »

..... here's the notation for a more traditional bell pattern ... changes are in the second bar of the 3/2 Guaguanco:

count:   | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & ||
cowbell:| X - X - x X - x | X - x X - X - x ||
conga:   | - S - S - - - - | O - - O - - - - ||
tumba:   | - - - - - - O - | - - - - - - O - ||
clave:   | X - - X - - - X | - - X - X - - - ||



Bart, this is super cool stuff you are doing. I too am working hard on applying foot rhythms under my conga parts.

When I play this, my cascara bell is cruzao from the way you play it.
With the bell as written, I think maybe a 2/3 clave and guaguanco would fit best.

I researched this relationship quite a bit before I spent hours on learning to play them with my feet. The cascara is usually shown played against a 2/3 clave as so,

cowbell:| X - X - x X - x | X - x X - X - x ||
clave:    | - - X - X - - -   | X - - X - - - X ||

I say this with respect and don't claim to be an expert. These details are something I have just recently been becoming more aware of.

My sources for believing this are the following books;
"Latin American Rhythm Instruments" by Humberto Morales.
"Salsa" by Charley Gerard
"Afro-Cuban Percussion & Drum Set" by Ed Uribe
"Afro-Latin Rhythm Dictionary" by Thomas Brown

All these book show this bell / clave relation. The last book however does show it reversed in the case of the fast (not slow) mambo. For the guaguanco though, it is as I've shown.

I am going to learn it both ways, it will be good for my feet.
 Wink

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« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2004, 10:26 AM »

You are right Bongo ... my bad. I must have just posted my reversed basic palito pattern again; oops.

So, what you said is correct for 2/3 Guaguanco. This is the traditional pattern for 3/2 Guaguanco.

cowbell:| X - x X - X - x | X - X - x X - x ||
clave:   | X - - X - - - X | - - X - X - - - ||


Thanks for pointing out my typo!
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« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2005, 06:18 PM »

I really appreciate the three drum notation of guaguanco.  This is such cool stuff.  

I need the hand left/right  notation above your notation posted.   I know i need to be able to start with either hand, but just want to learn the most basic first in one direction.  I set up with Quinta in middle, tumba on left(I am left handed) and conga on my right Smiley
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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2005, 08:12 PM »

I just put the handing into the original post, and imagine it would be opposite handing, if you're using left hand dominant.
Also, changed the touches to slaps..

Does that help?
Dave
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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2005, 08:27 PM »

I really appreciate the three drum notation of guaguanco.  This is such cool stuff.  

I need the hand left/right  notation above your notation posted.   I know i need to be able to start with either hand, but just want to learn the most basic first in one direction.  I set up with Quinta in middle, tumba on left(I am left handed) and conga on my right Smiley

You really need to spend time on your own and figure this out. We've given you the pattern, now you apply it. Each of us is going to play it differently; not everyone even has the Quinto set-up in the middle! My set-up changes based on the mood I'm in!

So just working out whatever hand pattern (sticking) works best for you. As long as it sounds good and sounds correct that is ALL that matters ... believe me!
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winston1
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« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2005, 07:28 PM »

Windhorse,

Thanks a lot for going to the extra trouble to put the hand notation in.  I am very grateful for your efforts.  It will help.

Much appreciated,

Larry  
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