Check out the Christmas CD, "It's For You He Came", featuring Bart Elliott on drums and percussion, available in the Drummer Cafe Store.


Drummer Cafe Community Forum
December 03, 2008, 12:42 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Learn to play Sleigh Bells on DCTV!
 
   Home   Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Should I feel Guilty using Heel Toe Doubles instead of single-strokes?  (Read 416 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
sparkitus
Guest
« on: January 12, 2004, 08:31 AM »

Well, I can't seem to break 16ths at 130 bpm cleanly with my double bass singles, but the double strokes start about there and go easily to 200 bpm and above.
I...I just feel guilty, like I'm cheating using this method. It's too easy.
Granted, it's not like I'm using a Dualist pedal, HEAVENS NO!!! It's all coming from me. But, who's to say which way is right or not?
I do need to retrain my hands to  play around the kit, do fills, whatever, with my feet working this way instead of the doing singles, it feels "funny."
But, all in all, is it wrong to do one way over the other? I guess I'm just hitting a crisis here.
I know I've taken up I guess three threads on the topic now, but, it's frustrting, when I was younger I could fly on my twin kicks, and now, I basically crawl. The heel toe ( THANKS DRUMMERMOM!!!!) is going to get me through my audition tomorrow, and, well, I dunno...any thoughts?


P.S. Yes, I know I can'
t rely solely on doubles. Triplets are not so easy with heel toe doubles, but I can play a triplet roll with singles at 175 bpm, and faster (which is just over 130 bpm when switched out to 16ths). I just find triplet rolls easir for some reason...
Logged
563
supporter
Platinum Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 6612


drum + hand


WWW
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2004, 10:21 AM »

There is no cheating.   There is getting the sound you want and not getting it.  How you get there is up to you.  

Heck, Ive thrown a slapback delay on a drum recording to double up some parts in the studio before.   Much easier than rerecording it from scratch.    Call me a heathen if you will, but it sounded good.
Logged

Making bad art.  Saying stupid things.  Implimenting my master plan to be forgotten when I'm gone and forgettable while I'm here.

The Luna Moth
me
Tableland
BBJones
Guest
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2004, 10:50 AM »

Your goal is to impress people at an audition right?  You obviously do not have enough time to develop your single stroke roll technique so really, whatever you have to do to impress these people is what you should do.

Asking us if you think double strokes are cheating or not doesn't really matter.  The people you are auditioning for are the only ones that do.

Now, if you want to go outside and beyond you focusing on your audition, then I'll ask one question:
What style of music are you getting into?

In some styles of metal (usually extreme grind) you will definitely be cast out for using double strokes of any kind.  That style is all about the speed of single strokes.  Those bands are really about how fast can their drummer play.  Things they don't like to see are double stroke kicks/snares/rolls or any kind, and abosolutely no snare triggering.  That will get you shunned in a heart beat.

I agree that the bottom line is you should only be worried about how good something sounds when it's done, as long as you can reproduce it live.  But, you may still get some flack for using doubles, if you are using them when most other fast drummers still use singles (like 240bpm and below on the kicks).  But really, you only get flak from the teenage fans, you won't see any from other drummers, especially the touring pro's.  But unfortunately, it's the fans that support the band so their opinion seems to count sometimes... Smiley
Logged
sparkitus
Guest
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2004, 12:00 PM »

Well, it is metal. It's a combination of all sorts of influences from Soilwork to Dream Theater to Life of Agony with hook laden choruses, vocals a la old Hetfield/John Bush (but sung)...
I guess a bass drum trigger would make it sound all the same, wouldn't it?
Who knows, they might not even know the difference, or, they might like the texture change?
Depending how I lay into it, it sounds almost the same.
Logged
Evgeny
Guest
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2004, 02:38 PM »

what kind of cheating are you talking about? Smiley it is the technique. a lot of people, including me, consider the double stroke rolls on double bass much harder technique than single stroke roll, so - think only about the sound. if you think the sound is appropriate, and it's easier for you, nothing else matters Smiley
Logged
Woody
supporter
Copper Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 109


Where in the hell is my gong mallet??


« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2004, 09:24 PM »

Sparkitus,

I agree with all posts to this question.  Its the technique that will allow you to attain your goal.  Let me throw this little practice routine at you though.  If you find that your not getting the same power and consistency out of your double stroke rolls on the kicks, work this pattern into your practice routine.  Play paradiddles w/ your feet.  EX.  RL(RR)LR(LL)RL(RR)LR(LL).. ect.   This pattern will sound indentical to a single stroke double kick pattern in terms of power and consistency w/less effort and more control at higher clock rates.  I hope this gives you another option. Best of luck
Logged
rockdave
Guest
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2004, 04:23 PM »

Well it's the sound that matters.  Close your eyes and do singles, then do doubles at the same speed (it doesnt have to be fast).  If you cant hear a difference in the sound, nobody should care how you get the sound.  But then again, why listen to a 14-year-old kid who does doubles too?
Logged
sparkitus
Guest
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2004, 08:08 PM »

Well, as it turns out,, they noticed it sounded different. We'll see if it really matters in the end.
There's always triggers.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.7 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.129 seconds with 21 queries.
Copyright ©2001 - 2008 Drummer Cafe. All rights reserved.
developed by Bart Elliott | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Site Map