My regular band consists of myself on drums, my wife doing vocals, and a rotating 3rd person, either guitar or sax...some form of solo instrument playing mostly smooth jazz/R&B/eclectic rock covers.  We work with a sequencer that plays everything else (bass, keys, horns, strings, etc.) which I work VERY hard at getting to sound as good as possible.  No cheezy midi files here.    In the market we live in, good/reliable musicians are few and far between.  Keeping a full band together is hard, and considering the economy these days, the pay is getting less and less for bands.  In our opinion, keeping the sequencer is one less musician we have to pay, it's always at the gig, never gets drunk, & never runs up a bar tab.  It's also easier to fit a trio on the small stages and outdoor patios that are so popular here.

Why is it then when we play, we are looked at with disdain for using technology to supplant real musicians?  It's not like we're putting anybody out of work here.  I understand the whole Musicians' Union's fight for Broadway musicians, but this is Charlotte, NC wine bars and restaurant patios I'm talking about.  

We are starting another project, more rock-based covers (2 guitars, bass, drums, vox), and was avoiding use of the sequencer when the bassist quit for personal reasons.  My train of thought was to plug on, using the sequencer for bass lines.  One of our two guitarists volunteered (grudgingly) to play bass on some of the stuff, only as a temporary solution and hated the idea of using the sequencer.  But, the other guitarist was warm to the idea of using the sequencer, as it opens up the possibilities of what we can play as a group (adding textures, keys, etc.)  

Just curious as to everyone's viewpoints on this topic, Pro & Cons.  

My preference would be to have live everything...a solid bassist, strong lead and rhythm guitars, a good keyboardist, strong lead vox and everyone singing lead/backups at times.  But alas, breaking up $200 pay amongst 5-6 people really cuts it almost too thin to even leave the house for.  

Whomever has the look of disdain needs to step up and pick up the bass guitar or shut up! I play in a little 3 piece band and often we've used sequencers to fatten up the tunes we used it on. I love the thing. No personality conflicts. I get it's share of the money at the end of the night, and unlike my guitar player, I don't have to worry about it having too much to drink and not being able to play a 3rd or 4th set! Whats not to like? If I could find a guy or girl that could do all that to replace the sequencer, I'd be happy to pay them, but this band has been trudging along for 5 years now and so far, no-one has stepped up! Ya do what you have to make it work! It's fun, but it's a business too. Good luck!

P.S. If they're so ticked about YOU using a sequencer, they can start their own band and NOT use one just to get back at you! LOL

human outsourcing :O

"Personally, I cant wait until there are "Guitar Machines" available…"




Amen

Its called a laptop  

Actually, Line 6 could probably produce one easily enough.   Considering their strength with modelling, its probably just a matter of time.   But my guess is, itd be a tough sell and probably not worth the expense.

There was a band for a while called Young Gods whose front man guitarist would sample himself and program his parts.   Yet they had a live drummer.   He liked the vibe that a live drummer gave the band, but wanted something more mechanical with his riffing.   Plus he didnt want to play while singing.  

My band has had sequenced keyboards for 2 years now.  We call it "The Diva" because she's always right.    We had a great keyboard player until his job moved him to New York.  After numerous auditions, we decided it would be much less stressful to just sequence them.  

I was very apprehensive at first but I got used to it quickly.  Now I think it's great.  It never starts a chorus too early, it's never late to rehearsals or gigs, it doesn't drink too much, and it plays for free!

For the drummer (that would be me), it's a great way to improve your time.  I'm to the point where I don't even hear the click anymore, I just feel it, even on the songs that we don't use it on.

The biggest misconception about them is that you can't push and/or pull the tempo for energy.  I can play on either the front or back side of the beat anytime I need to without losing time.  

I think people that have a problem playing with them are just mad because it exposes the fact that their time sucks.  

Steve, is the click audible to the audience or to the other band members or just yourself?  Wasn't sure from how you worded it.

At any rate, I think working with a sequencer is simply part of modern music.  I create loops for my orginal rock project and operate them live via minidisc.  Granted, we only use a loop on two to three songs out of a 10 to 12 song set, but we still use them and use them to enhance a song.  I also plug into a click track (audible to me only) for three to four other songs in the set.  I agree with what's been said already---sequencers/loops/click tracks generally aid a band in sounding tighter.  Most of the time, tightness equates to better which leads to a professional sound.  If that's what you're going for and you achieve it, what's to worry about what others think?

I say sequence away......

Ok...This would be Scott's wife Lauren.  He told me about this thread.  After defending ourselves for years regarding our process I have used every single argument you guys have touched on.  So God Bless YOU everyone.  And by the way...I did not name myself so but I am this bands "diva".  Some people don't even know my name.  I am just "the diva".  So I had to respond to the keyboard diva-from one to another.



Big Hugs,
(at least until Scott shows up and breaks it up.)

Lauren

Who's shooting you disdainful looks? Does anyone ever notice a living, breathing bass guitarist on stage?

Err no, they probably realise that the sequencer is going to rule their lives from now on. I can sympathise with someone who hates gigging with sequencers.....for one thing, they squeeze any spontanaity right out of your night's work. No extra chorus of guitar solo if it's going down well and if the lead singer misses the first verse for some reason you are usually screwed for half the song.
Let's face it, the sequencer IS putting someone out of work. I'm probably guilty of looking on in disdain, a) because the musicians using them are usually forced to by the venue booker, who has realised they can book an (almost) live band for A LOT less money than a few years ago and b) because the musicians usually sound uncomfortable playing with the sequencer.
Having read the other contributions I realise now that 3 musicians and a sequencer is better than NO musicians (point taken!).
And I'm glad that Scott spends a lot of time programming the backgrounds, as in my experience they usually sound awful.
For the sake of debate, let's not pretend that everything is hunky dory in the land of dinner dance entertainment and that a sequenced bass is better than a bass player.

My first exposure to live music with a sequencer was a jazz gig that had a piano player and a sax. Both of these guys are excellent musicians. I don't know why they needed to add a drum machine. Being a drummer who might have played the gig I was a little put out about them using a machine.
This was 20 some odd years ago so the whole set up was crude. Also these were jazz musicians so the use of a machine (or any technology) was probably not comfortable for them.
Anyway, short story long, they couldn't hear the "drums" well enough, got off beat with it, the machine didn't "fix" it and they went down in flames. I have to admit it was a gratifying moment for me .
I remember Howard Jones "What is Love Anyway" touring with just sequencers. I could not get excited about seeing that concert.
A former band member of mine who played sax, decided to go solo and got a keyboard with a sequencer. He didn't play keyboard but with this device he could pretend to. I actually did a gig with him and a trumpet player (by this time he realized he needed more than his noodling on the keys to entertain the audience). I was able to play with the sequencer with no mistakes, but the sour taste for them remains.
I do go to karaoke bars now and then I guess those are the ultimate in sequencing.

I don't think most would prefer to play with a sequencer over a real musician live, a good one that is.

But to discount them entirely is just nonsense.

Like any other musical tool, used appropriately and with taste, they are an asset.

Especially if its helping you out of the problem of losing a musician, like in the case of the original poster.

Sure, thats a given.

But my point is, unless its a jam band that plays different arrangements of their songs regularly, what does it matter?

Like I said before, most would not prefer a sequencer over a live musician.

But in my experience, the ones that are first to point out sequencers short comings, have short comings of their own that a sequencer would expose in the bright, sunny light of day.

I'm just amazed that this thread has taken on this life of it on thing! The sequencer was introduced to fill a gap. A need. A neccessity! I think it was said they would RATHER have a live guy or gal but no one wants the gig. So what do you do? Get a sequencer! What's the problem with that? Some of you act like the band should just quit because the bass player did. Come on man you know that ain't even cool. It's not the first time it's been done. John Kaye is STILL bassless to this day! (Ha! I'm a poet!) It's just a tool to do a job!

Actually, what I said was that yes, I'd rather have a live bassist and keyboardist...but in the situation I'm in currently, to keep working, we're using the sequencer.  We're still looking for a bassist for the rock project...but the jazz/R&B group is fine like it is with the sequencer.  Most of the places that the jazz group plays are too small to have 4-5 people on stage, mostly small patios or corners in bars.  And they don't pay much...definitely not enough to split with 2 extra people.  That will be different with the rock group, targeting more traditional clubs and bars in Charlotte with ample space and cover charges.