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Author Topic: Working with Sequencers  (Read 1537 times)
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nudrum
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2004, 07:41 AM »

My first exposure to live music with a sequencer was a jazz gig that had a piano player and a sax. Both of these guys are excellent musicians. I don't know why they needed to add a drum machine. Being a drummer who might have played the gig I was a little put out about them using a machine.
This was 20 some odd years ago so the whole set up was crude. Also these were jazz musicians so the use of a machine (or any technology) was probably not comfortable for them.
Anyway, short story long, they couldn't hear the "drums" well enough, got off beat with it, the machine didn't "fix" it and they went down in flames. I have to admit it was a gratifying moment for me Roll Eyes.
I remember Howard Jones "What is Love Anyway" touring with just sequencers. I could not get excited about seeing that concert.
A former band member of mine who played sax, decided to go solo and got a keyboard with a sequencer. He didn't play keyboard but with this device he could pretend to. I actually did a gig with him and a trumpet player (by this time he realized he needed more than his noodling on the keys to entertain the audience). I was able to play with the sequencer with no mistakes, but the sour taste for them remains.
I do go to karaoke bars now and then I guess those are the ultimate in sequencing.
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2004, 07:56 AM »

*raises hand*  ... actually, yeah.   Grin

I once knew a bassist in a power pop trio from New Mexico who would writhe on stage like a lead guitarist, grinding himself to the ground with a flurry of ... eighth notes. His beer belly would jiggle and his ratty hair would flop around. Crowds would gather like rubber neckers on a freeway after an accident. He was mesmerizing because people wanted to see how far he would go to humiliate himself. He would terrorize guitarists who upstaged him. He eventually chewed up and spit out about 10 lead guitarists before selecting a virtual stage mannequin so he could be the visual centerpiece. He didn't sing, didn't write any songs (they played mostly covers, but they had a growing list of originals written by the drummer), and never went any further than a couple years worth of regional tour dates. The band eventually folded, but he's one of the few bassists I never forgot what they looked like on stage. I don't think that was a good thing, though.  Roll Eyes I know my drummer friend, Harvey J., dreamed of a good sequencer and a hit song that didn't include a no-self-esteem having bassist! hehe

Side note: I love bassists. They are my best friends in most situations and they know how to take a little ribbing from smart-mouth drummers such as myself.  Wink
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Christopher
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« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2004, 08:04 AM »

I don't think most would prefer to play with a sequencer over a real musician live, a good one that is.

But to discount them entirely is just nonsense.

Like any other musical tool, used appropriately and with taste, they are an asset.

Especially if its helping you out of the problem of losing a musician, like in the case of the original poster.
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« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2004, 08:21 AM »

How is it different from using a metronome?
I didn't mention a metronome  Huh
Although, as you bring it up, there is quite a bit of difference. My point was having to adhere stictly to arrangements with programmed backing tracks. Of course that doesn't occur with a metronome, you can change the arrangement as much as you want, so long as the tempo is constant.
I also didn't discount sequncers completely. I was just putting another point of view.
I've done plenty of 'background' music gigs in my time. When the people are just talking over your playing, part of the fun is changing the arrangements to suit your mood. If you are playing with a couple of excellent musicians, there is nothing to stop you extending intro's, solo's or coda's to suit, especially if the song is going down well (or people are dancing). It's possible to do that on the fly with sequencers, although not that easy and often risky, which is why most people stick to a rigid arrangements.
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« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2004, 08:47 AM »

My point was having to adhere stictly to arrangements with programmed backing tracks.

Sure, thats a given.

But my point is, unless its a jam band that plays different arrangements of their songs regularly, what does it matter?

Like I said before, most would not prefer a sequencer over a live musician.

But in my experience, the ones that are first to point out sequencers short comings, have short comings of their own that a sequencer would expose in the bright, sunny light of day.
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clt2msb
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« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2004, 08:51 AM »

In response to the thoughts on soloing time....I usually program enough extra measures to allow for a solo section...either by expanding the space where the original solo in the song was, or adding vamp space at the end of the song so the soloist can stretch out.  Sometimes our players complain that I've added too many extra measures.  We are NOT a jam band, and I can't stand players noodling for 5-6 minutes on a solo with no melody.  

I do agree, however, that the other musicians need to know where they are in relation to the sequencer at all times, entries, etc.  That has been a problem when trying new material.  I'm usually the one they lean on for entries because I know the sequences inside and out by the time we play them.  I usually try to include some percussive que to let me (at least) know when a change or ending is coming up.  

I don't usually use straight click tracks, except for entry into a song (if necessary).  I'll sequence a percussion track that gives me the time, and it's a lot more subtle than a tamborine playing 2 and 4 in every measure.  Sometimes, if the bass line is busy enough, I don't need a click at all.  And I always make sure that I can hear the sequencer, and have recently started using in-ear monitors.

Part of what makes us unique is that we do employ live drums.  There are tons of acts out there who are keyboard/vox, guitar/vox, keyboard/sax, etc. that use sequenced drum tracks.  And unless they're done right (usually by a drummer) and have a high quality sound source they sound horrible.  I played electronic drums for a while, when we were more of an R&B band.  The blend was nice.  As our market changed to more rock (Fleetwood Mac, Steely Dan, etc), and as the trend in R&B moved back to acoustic drums, I switched.  

All Hail Yami the Wonder Box! (Yamaha QY300 Sequencer)

PS...Louderdb....no offense taken  Wink
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« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2004, 10:20 PM »

I'm just amazed that this thread has taken on this life of it on thing! The sequencer was introduced to fill a gap. A need. A neccessity! I think it was said they would RATHER have a live guy or gal but no one wants the gig. So what do you do? Get a sequencer! What's the problem with that? Some of you act like the band should just quit because the bass player did. Come on man you know that ain't even cool. It's not the first time it's been done. John Kaye is STILL bassless to this day! (Ha! I'm a poet!) It's just a tool to do a job!
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« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2004, 01:17 AM »

Mate,
We're just having a friendly debate. That's one of the things about a forum. If someone posted 'we're losing our bass player and replacing them with a sequencer' and every post after that just said 'great', what a boring forum that would be!
I think it was said they would RATHER have a live guy or gal but no one wants the gig.
That's not correct. They said they did not want to split the $200 wages between 5 or 6 people.
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clt2msb
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« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2004, 11:22 AM »

Actually, what I said was that yes, I'd rather have a live bassist and keyboardist...but in the situation I'm in currently, to keep working, we're using the sequencer.  We're still looking for a bassist for the rock project...but the jazz/R&B group is fine like it is with the sequencer.  Most of the places that the jazz group plays are too small to have 4-5 people on stage, mostly small patios or corners in bars.  And they don't pay much...definitely not enough to split with 2 extra people.  That will be different with the rock group, targeting more traditional clubs and bars in Charlotte with ample space and cover charges.  

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