I had an "awakening"   yesterday at rehearsal.  

I forget what song we were playing but we were deciding on how to play the intro.  Our guitar player suggested that he would play his part twice then we would all come in.

For me, I was automatically thinking it was going to be 2 bars long.  

After hearing his part, he actually meant his phrase played twice which came out to be 8 bars.  In fact, when playing with other musicians, when trying to convey an idea or part to me, they express them in phrases and not in bars.  Depending on their phrase, it could be 2, 4, 6 or 8 bars.

When I express a drum part to them, I'm usually expressing (verbally) it in bars.  

It seems to more musical sense to express in phrases vs bars but I guess it depends on the situation.

Anyways, it opened up a door in my little brain to start experimenting in phrases vs bars.  

I hope this makes sense.  

Anyone experience this with other musicians?

DC

You're getting into the whole "educated" (formal training) v. "uneducated" musician thing.

Though I am an "educated" musician, I spend the vast majority if time playing with the "uneducated" ones.

It does become frustrating at times when people THINK they are speaking in accurate musical terms yet they truly are not.  I'd say I probabaly spend 90% of the time just going along with them and their lingo rather than trying to educate them on what is correct.  Perhaps I should go the other way with it.

my band leader (who is the lead guitar player) counted off a song recenlty at rehearsal... 1 - 2 - 3 - 4.

But the song was in a 3/4 time signature.  hehe  Actually, I shouldn't pick on him cuz he reads & plays quite well.

I think it's useful to be able to speak in terms of both phrasing AND measures.  It certainly helps when all the band members can read music & have at least a basic understanding of music theory  

yes, the first time I heard Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull count off a 3/4 song, I loved it!  

He went:  "1-2-3,   2-2-3,   3-2-3,   4-2-3..."

no guesswork after that!  I think the song was the live version of Jack In The Green, or maybe Life Is A Long Song?

I spent the last 1.5 years with a cover band that was just totallly uneducated.  I couldn't stand it.

It is such a relief playing with people who know how to count, know their theory and in general know the subdivisions.  It makes the music sound so much better and is actually liberating in that you don't have to 2nd guess what the schlock next you is going to play the next few bars.  You don't have to rehearse with the band as much either.  You play it like the record.

What jon and tony said.  

It is about verbal phrases.  I just say "lets do the waaaa waaaaa ner nerner dada guitar part thing twice" and we speak to each other in sounds, or in musical "phrases" as you said.  That in itself is a type of special "musicians language" that we all should know how to speak.  Sometimes, you have no choice but to communicate this way.  And when many of them communicate an idea to me, they can only express their thoughts to me in "how about a boom, booom bap" kinda' thing but I understand them just fine. I don't even talk technical numbers, etc. because its absolutely useless unless communicated among formally educated musicians who know how to read music.

You're better off communicating on a level that all people can understand, which is not necessary a lower level, but rather a different level--an "ear" approach, or "acting it out" so to speak.  I have worked this way with the majority of musicians I have encountered, and don't mind. There are hundreds of bands who have created music just fine like this and continue to do so.

Ay aye!  
Well said!! It's about the music. Being stick to the guns scientific is just fine when everyone else is.. And I agree with Felix - that's gotta be a really nice situation to be in, not that I've ever been there.
But, illiterates are often changing our musical paradigms,,, then someone comes along and writes it down. "NO, it's done this way!"
When the original composer was just feeling it all out of thin air..

Oh man...I am sooo glad I have found other people that go through the day to day hell I go through trying to decipher uneducated music jargon. I have had 5 different insances this week from 5 different artists and I never try and correct them cause they're signing the paychecks. i just sit there and analyze what they meant and try to play only to get "No that's not what I meant". Then later on I get that when he means Half time he actually means cut time. Or there is a diamond at the end of chorus 2 and that he or she actually means to do a complete staccato stop down instead of letting the cymbals ring out. I usually end up writing my own charts to get through it without making the person feel like I am a horrible drummer. I think most of them just hear it from someone else and use it to sound cool. It's definitely confusing especially when it comes to time signatures or certain nuances in a song like a ritard, half time, etc. I am with you brothers! Glad I am not alone.....It's only 99% of the time do I play with someone that knows what they're talking about. Usually those guys bring the huge loop machine or the pre-recorded orchestra and BGV's with a 5 page chart. And you go, I like the uneducated guy....but it makes you work a little harder to pay the rent.

That counting method is pretty standard. It is taught to students of all instruments at schools across the country.

Yes it is, but if you don't use it all the time (like drummers do), you tend to forget it.