bermuda
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« on: March 12, 2004, 07:58 AM » |
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As mentioned in another thread, I am going to note the percentages of Remo, Evans and Aquarian heads on the shelves in various music stores.
My first report is for Robin's Drumworks in L.A., and while I didn't count each head, the approximate percentages were a little surprising -
35% Remo 30% Evans 35% Aquarian
This is a shop where working players buy their consumables, and Robin keeps the brands in stock that his customers prefer, so this shows a marked preference toward Evans and particularly Aquarian, over Remo. There were literally 3 Attack heads on the shelf as well... no Ludwig or Earthtone.
Obviously, one shop in L.A. doesn't accurately reflect the market in general, and I'll be checking shops across the country while on tour, and report back. I normally don't frequent the box stores, but if I wander into one, I'll note their ratios as well.
Bermuda
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felix
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« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2004, 08:55 AM » |
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I betcha you will find the results vary from region to region. Should be interesting.
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paul
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« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2004, 09:02 AM » |
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The only problem with this poll is that some stores don't keep their heads in sight, so you can't tell what they have. That keeps me from buying heads at Guitar Center unless absolutely necessary.
Also, I'm not sure that I'd characterize a 35/30 ratio as a marked preference. You may have done your count at a time when the Evans stock was low, or the others were high.
If, in fact, the store does stock more Remo and Aquarian, I'm betting that's because of demand from customers.
The store where I do buy heads stocks approximately equal numbers of Remo, Aquarian, and Evans.
Still doesn't mean they'll have what I want when I go in, unfortunately.
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psycht
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« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2004, 09:12 AM » |
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If your in a chain store, I'm sure the ratios will match from place-to-place.
Independant stores, I'm thinking, will have a different ratio, but will still be consistant on the whole. Mainly because the price at which the store can afford to stock their shelves.
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2004, 09:17 AM » |
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Yeah, unfortunately though I like the idea, I agree with Paul's points. Also as I mentioned before, in my experience even if some stores have equal ratios of Remo, Evans and Aquarian, often all the Remo heads are standard types and usable by Pro's, whereas all the Evans and Aquarians can be weird closeout items that no one wants. I know this sounds argumentative, but it's happened to me more than once.
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bermuda
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« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2004, 09:22 AM » |
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The only problem with this poll is that some stores don't keep their heads in sight, so you can't tell what they have. Also, I'm not sure that I'd characterize a 35/30 ratio as a marked preference. You may have done your count at a time when the Evans stock was low, or the others were high. In this store's case, all of their heads are displayed, and they were fully-stocked (I've noticed the balance of heads there for a few years... I took my count on a typical day.) If, in fact, the store does stock more Remo and Aquarian, I'm betting that's because of demand from customers. Certainly it's customer demand, that's why I'll be focusing on the smaller stores that tend to be more responsive to what the customers prefer. The contention in the other thread was that Remo's market share is far ahead of Evans, and I maintain (and will attempt to show) that it's simply not true anymore, in spite of Remo's former, almost complete domination of the head market. Although the discussion hinged on Evans and what they've done to gain market share, I've added Aquarian to the mix as well, just for balance. For example, in the case of Robin's, it wouldn't have been fair to say that Remo and Evans have nearly an equal presence, and leave it at that. It's important to note Aquarian's strong presence as well, since they are also helping to erode Remo's share, and affecting Evan's numbers at the same time. Bermuda
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bermuda
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« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2004, 09:30 AM » |
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Also as I mentioned before, in my experience even if some stores have equal ratios of Remo, Evans and Aquarian, often all the Remo heads are standard types and usable by Pro's, whereas all the Evans and Aquarians can be weird closeout items that no one wants. I'm not really looking at the particular types, just the brand name and the numbers. Obviously there will be some stores which display stock that's not moving. There's no way to know absolutely for sure how much of which brand is getting into consumers' hands without getting the sales figures from each store, which is impossible, and none of our business. We can't even compare the particular companies' sales figures, because that doesn't reflect what is sold to the end user. Best I can do is take an unbiased, approximate count of what I see in the stores, perhaps ask if there's additional stock in the back, and report what I find. Bermuda
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felix
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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2004, 09:56 AM » |
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Really, I think it would be a great way to strike up a conversation. I wish there were more ludwig heads in shops. Our local one here has a pretty good selection for the most part, but the "big boys" don't carry them. The silver dots are just awesome rock n roll heads. I don't know why more people don't use them. 
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jameswalker
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« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2004, 10:08 AM » |
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Independant stores, I'm thinking, will have a different ratio, but will still be consistant on the whole. Mainly because the price at which the store can afford to stock their shelves.
FWIW...and I don't know if we want to open this thread up to individual reports, but what the heck... The shop/studio where I teach: 50% Remo, 25% Evans, 20% Aquarian, 5% Attack (small selection, maybe 60-75 drum heads total). As per Chrisso's suspicions, there is a better variety of Remo heads (size and model) than that of the other brands. The mom-and-pop store in the town where I live: 45% Remo, 45% Evans, 10% Ludwig ("new old stock") (very small selection, maybe 25 heads). I'll have to check my local GC the next time I'm down there - they keep the Evans heads out front of the counter, and other brands behind (except for some Aquarian "Super Kick" bd combo packs), so their percentages aren't that obvious.
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psycht
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« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2004, 10:09 AM » |
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The silver dots are just awesome rock n roll heads. I don't know why more people don't use them.  Cause its not 1985. 
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Nathan
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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2004, 10:14 AM » |
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Cause its not 1985.  Haha! "budump crash" The guitar/drum shop near my house has almost exactly 50% Remo and 50% Evans. No aquarian, attack, or ludwig at all. I don't shop there very often, unless I need a head or a replacement part quickly. Nate
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adam
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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2004, 10:20 AM » |
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The music store around me stock about 75% Remo and 25% Evans. There is another store down the road that stocks about 50% Remo and 50% Evans. No Aquarian in either.
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2004, 10:55 AM » |
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I like the fact that everyone's now chipping in.  Again my non-scientific guesstimate of UK stores is that the ratio is probably 60% Remo, 30% Evans and 10% Aquarian. As someone else said, quite often there is no Aquarian prescence at all. I'm now wondering why. Aquarian (and Evans) have gone to so much effort to innovate, what is it that stops them ensuring availability of a good selection in most stores? Is it the store managers? 
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jameswalker
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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2004, 11:53 AM » |
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Aquarian (and Evans) have gone to so much effort to innovate, what is it that stops them ensuring availability of a good selection in most stores? Is it the store managers?  I won't comment on stores' and manufacturers' marketing and distribution strategies, as I know very little about that side of the music business (certainly, not enough to offer an authoritative opinion). I will say that among players, "innovative" isn't always welcome. There can be a great deal of intertia when it comes to one's choice of gear, including drum head selection. To wit: someone says, "I know what I like," to which another replies, "You don't 'know what you like,' you 'like what you know!'"I think drummers are getting hip to some of these new "innovative" designs by Evans and Aquarian (a.o.), but part of it is staying with the tried and true (even tho there may be a better option out there, such as Aquarian TC vs. Remo Ambassadors, etc. - IMHO, YMMV, etc.). The other part is, these "innovative" heads usually aren't as readily available as the tried and true. Store owners will likely stock what they know customers want, and customers will likely select from what the store owners have in stock. I was down at my local "big box" music store last week, and they had to search far and wide to find a 14" Aquarian Texture Coated head. New Orleans Special? Jack DeJohnette head? "Nope, but we can order those for you if you'd like..." It's tough to convince someone that these new heads are better if they don't try them. Some players just aren't interested in trying something new. Paul Mason at Tempus gets this all the time with his fibreglass and carbon fibre drums. He once told a story of someone who tried a set of his drums in a music store, loved the sound, was ready to write the check, when he asked the salesman, "So...tell me again, what kind of wood are those drums made out of?" When told that the shells were made of fibreglass and not wood, he decided not to buy, even though he had played the drums and loved the sound of them!It's as if many drummers get their gear preferences decided at age 22, and then that's it, that's all she wrote, "Katy, bar the door," "Game over, man!" 
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mfran
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« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2004, 11:59 AM » |
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I am confused... if you see 10 Evans Hydraulic Heads on the shelf but only 4 Remo Pinstripe, and one Attack Head, does that mean the Evans Hydro sell better than Remo Pinstripe, or does that mean that no one is buying the Hydraulic and they have been sitting there for 3 years, or does it mean someone just bought the Remo instead, and the Evans just came in today? And maybe someone just bought 10 Attack heads for their school, but we think they have none because no one buys them? Too many variables to base a conclusion on available stock alone, no?
I would ask for Aquarian and see if they are hidden... Guitar Center keeps some heads out, but most are behind the counter, down near the floor... in fact, when you are paying for merchandise, the drum heads are right in front of your knees, but hidden from view for some reason... that makes me go to Sam Ash.... I like to grab a few heads, tap em, look at the logo print, choose one that looks and sounds best. Although GC had a lot of Evans out once, so I bought the coated dot one.
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Mightydog
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« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2004, 12:04 PM » |
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 This is fun! I checked the local GC in Tigard OR (suburb of Portland) and found 45% Remo 30% Evans 25% Aquarian The drum department manager, who actually did the counting with me, said, "...dude (yes, he really said that), we all know that...like...Remo heads rule and...like...all of those other ones are just garbage. I don't even...like...know why we have them here." So, for fun, we started opening Remo boxes to do a quick spot-check for QC. Probably over a quarter--could be a third--needed to go back for various separation anxiety issues. The manager's reaction was "...whoa, dude, Remo must have had a bad day or something..." Yeah, dude, sure.
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jameswalker
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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2004, 12:11 PM » |
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The drum department manager, who actually did the counting with me You mean he put down his guitar long enough to deal with a drum-related issue? (Sorry...I'm thinking of the Sam Ash in New Haven, CT...) 
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bermuda
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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2004, 12:18 PM » |
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Too many variables to base a conclusion on available stock alone, no? Indeed there are many variables, but I think they even out after a while. Just because there's a shelf full of Ambassadors doesn't mean those are hot sellers, either. The original question/comment was about how Evans goes about marketing their heads, and presence/availability in stores goes hand-in-hand with that. As I mentioned, it's not possble to know how many of which brand are making their way into consumers' hands, and I'm not attempting to form a conclusion based on one store, or five, or even ten. Although if we get surveys on 25 stores, and Remo's share is less than 50% in each, I think my point is proven. And that point is that Remo's market share is not as hot and heavy as it once was, particularly that the statement "what little market share they have" (regarding Evans in another thread) is also erroneous. Bermuda
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Chris Whitten
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« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2004, 12:19 PM » |
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Nice one Mightydog. Very amusing.  And James, I agree with everything you've previously said. I was watching a 'what heads for snare drum?' thread at another place  . Early on someone commented along the lines of; no brainer, ambassador top and bottom. There followed a gaggle of like minded forumites saying "yeah, what's wrong with that? Ambassadors all the way".
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mfran
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« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2004, 12:27 PM » |
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You mean he put down his guitar long enough to deal with a drum-related issue? (Sorry...I'm thinking of the Sam Ash in New Haven, CT...)  HA! Yes, I go to that Sam Ash too... I once heard an employee in there tell someone they could mount bongos on a normal cymbal stand. "Just buy the bongos" he said to the parents, "he can probably put them on any old stand he already has..." I then questioned him because I needed a bongo stand at the time, and knew they had to have a special bongo mounting strap, lock attachment thingee. Turns out he knew nothing about it, couldn't tell us how it might work, and was lying. I smiled, but said to him, "I had a feeling you were lying". And I enjoyed saying it---I hate that kind of misleading sh--. But the drum heads are all out, and easy to compare before buying at Sam Ash's. Guitar Center heads are in better shape, boxes un-opened, but you can't compare without direct sales-kid 'help'. You cant win 
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